It is notable that those critics that were so unrelenting in their attempts to rubbish Lilley and Golding have kept quiet as these two have shown their judgement to be flawed. Both are good footballers and look to have class. You are right to point out Golding's brave display particularly as his bravery was disgracefully called into question. He also linked well for our first try as a good attacking fullback should do.

Or you'll disappear like you did in 2015 after writing them off previously and saying in 2013/14 that McDermott could only be credited with any success post 2012.

Season over? Leeds are fighting for survival. Everyones heard of the leicester city story. The miracle title win. But what about the Leeds rhinos story? The team that went from treble winners to rock bottom in 6 months flat.

But it is not the same team and that is the point you seem unable to grasp

Small consolation but to me it looks like Saints have a bigger job long term of getting back to the top table.They may have got on the right side of the close games as opposed to us this year and still be in the mix league wise but they were awful today against Hull and their team does look bang average across the board.

Saints this year are just so weird to watch. They've looked really poor and the only time we've put 30+ points on a team since the CCF vs HKR even if we did lose, yet they are still in the mix and are finding wins here and there and wouldn't be surprised if they grab 4th spot.....today might help them if Hull progress to a semi and a final.

But long term they look to be plodding along. Roby has hit the 30 mark so can't keep relying on him and Lomax never seems to last long before injury hits. At least with us in weird sort of way we're doing so bad it could give us a kick up the backside to make changes.....Saints if they're 4th/5th might not think they're far off and keep things the same.

We are the frog that has been dropped into boiling water. Saints are the frog that started off in cold water, slowly boiling to death.

I don't comment on performances that I haven't seen - preferably with the ability to review.

It surprises me when people do.

Good summary of it.

It weird, whilst we're having to eat a large sh*t sandwich in 2016, I reckon we'll still win silverware before St Helens do.

True.Long term the flukey 2014 win they got could turn out to be the worst thing to happen as it probably kidded them into believing they were still the top team when in reality they have been slipping away year on year.Flex summed it up nicely with his analogy.

Okay, name them.

I agree with your first paragraph, but you are a million miles away with your second one. They have been planning for last few years, hence why they started with a set of good first years in their 19's, then kept them together throughout the age group, to now first team squad. They have more youngsters playing than us.

Where they fail is in the coach, just like us. I said start of year that Leeds, Saints, and Huddersfield would all have overseas coaches for 2017, and I stick by that statement.

I agree with that Saints with a proper coach would be a force.

Look at their lineups for the 2010/2011 Grand Finals.....plenty of youngsters who were meant to take the club forward, didn't happen though and most left within 2/3 seasons. Most of their youngsters they've played this year don't look good enough at all to me (mostly a two man team with Roby and Walmsley and the odd moments from Fages and Walsh) at least ours have with the exception of Sutcliffe.

I made the brash statement after the Huddersfield game last week, that I could only see four of that squad still playing for Leeds in next four years, and I stick by that. Saints are much better planned than we are, although Longer term with our next batch that will be the other way.

Players like Percival, Fages, Savellio, Knowles, could easily replace their Leeds counterparts.

You have said Lilley was too slow and felt he was unable to break the line (later having to amend this to say apart from interceptions) So are you saying you have not viewed the highlights of the cup match at Huddersfield where you have the ability to review the lovely clean break by Lilley and the turn of pace he showed. A further review will show some smart attacking fullback play by Golding whose linking and backing up the break with good hands helped to create a score .....something of a rarety in that position at Leeds.

It doesn't surprise me to see you and certain others fail to acknowledge when you get it wrong.

Lilley's interceptions have little to do with being fleet of foot, if they did he might convert some in to tries, I still think he is slow for a half-back (as did you) that and his defence were the concerns. I haven't seen any highlights from Friday, how many of the eighty minutes did they cover?

Getting it right or wrong cannot be judged by isolated incidents just as nobody was keen to state you were wrong when Hardaker put Keinhorst in with a quality pass or when Sutcliffe created tries at Les Catalans with clever kicks.

Perhaps it's just you.

So when these two have their next bad game you will be on here saying i got it wrong - of course you won't!!

I look forward to your comments after you have seen the highlights.

So you think Hardaker is a good passer do you? It figures.

But I was not the one running down a young player because he made 3 errors in difficult circumstances and then calling into question his desire/will to succeed/determination. All players have good and bad games but you jumped on him and your negative comments were based on one game or actually one part of a game. So it would have been kind to restore some balance when he put right the things you accused him of.

You forgot to mention how many of the 80 minutes featured in the highlight package you've seen. How can anyone who didn't see the game give an appraisal of the individual performances. I couldn't, I'm surprised anyone who wasn't there could.



I think Hardaker is a good all round player, I also think he could develope his attacking play. You follow these things, how many try assists has he had? How many of those were passes?

I hope GH doesn't wait to the end of the year to review. If we want new players for next year and/or a new coach, he needs to be talking to them now.

As for this year, ignoring the nonsense of BM still targeting the top 4, the whole focus should be about coming home strongly at the end of the year, and given our actual form and upcoming fixtures IMO the realistic focus ought to be on survival. I don't mind the coach spouting positive rubbish for public consumption, but internally its time to stop messing about.

Secondly I'd stop picking any not fit players. Give those that are injured a chance to recover fully, and play kids in any gaps. Our injured players have shown they can't win games, so why bother to continue to pick them? We may as well use Falloon and Baldwinson rather than have the likes of Delaney come back, get injured during a match where they contribute nothing and then are out again for 2 weeks.

Thirdly I'd be telling all the senior players that their positions for next year and beyond are not guaranteed unless they pick it up. I doubt Watkins is being talked about by NRL or RU sides ATM. The way some of them are playing they'll be lucky to stay in SL at all, never mind get a big cheque elsewhere.

I genuinely think the younger players need to be left out of those discussions, but some of the more highly paid members of the squad barely deserve to be called pro RL players on what they've dished out this year.

Agree, It's time to batten down the hatches and start treating it as a 'playing for your mortgage' type gig. Top 8? Let's just get some win's on the board so we don't have the worst fixtures if and when we do have to play in the middle 8's, which if we are poor enough to be contesting by seasons end will NOT be easy.

You are playing the slippery eel again. You were specifically asked to comment on the break Lilley made for our first try as you had previously questioned his ability to break the line. I did not ask you to comment on the full game so your 80 minute comment is irrelevant and an attempt to avoid answering the question.

The highlights also showed Lilley to have a nice turn of speed and Golding to show how to link from fullback with heads up awareness and good hands for this try.

You admit to rarely attending matches but this doesn't stop you commenting from the VT so why so shy to comment on this one try from the highlights VT?

Haven't been docked any points yet. Leeds lost I've somehow managed to avoid seeing any of it bar one grainy try on the BBC prior to the Castleford-Salford game.

Just the one break was it - what's the line you use to cover that exception?



I don't comment on performances I haven't seen. Highlights can be misleading just as when Wells shows a poor line from Watkins and compares that to a good line from Keinhorst, it illustrates a point but doesn't tell all the lines run by the two centres that day.



I try not to comment on games or incidents I haven't seen until I've at least seen some footage. That would normally come via SLFT on Sky and The SLS on the BBC - neither have produced anything to cover the 6th round Challenge Cup games that were not broadcast.

If it's available online post a link.