Quite right, although I think they have been more fortunate in key positions.

There is a lack of confidence and neither defensive or attacking structures are working. I would say that the person to address these issues is the coach.

You think on such a superficial level and look for the obvious stuff to defend the coach.

Perhaps you might consider the following:

1. The coaching structure itself - the fact McDermott is in sole charge of every aspect of coaching at the club means options and input from others are very limited and the incentive to recruit talent is not there - Turkeys don't vote for Xmas. His self protection has damaged the quality of coaching throughout the club, his assistant is a failed championship coach who will never be threat to him. Performances on the field should reflect in part the coaching input or what is the point of the coach.

2. Recruitment - the quality of recruitment has been very poor, if you don't think McDermott doesn't have an input into recruitment than I would suggest you are wrong. So part of the weakness of the squad is significantly down to him.

3. Youth development - the inability to produce, develop and integrate young players into the team - especially the forwards is a direct result of the coaching structure and quality. Look at Wigan, they are the only club as big as Leeds that are comparable - they seem capable of producing a stream of young players and a structure that easily includes them. So when you have injures and Wigan's have been as critical as those at Leeds their drop in performance is minimal. Players like Singleton are not progressing - they are making the same mistakes week in week out - when does that not become a coaching issue.

4. Team selection - consistently playing players who are so injured that they cannot perform at any reasonable level is a serious miscalculation on his part. Better to have some youngsters gaining experience and players getting fit - it is not as if we are winning these games anyway.

5. Injuries - all teams have injuries - some more serious than Leeds, how many Rhinos players are out for the season? Its a red herring that has had a greater impact than it should have do to other issues that have been self inflicted by the coach

5. Tactics and substitutions - even you cannot deflect this from McDermott and leaving unused substitutions when you "allegedly" have a group of player on their last legs doesn't make any sense.

6. Training facilities - if you as the leader are constantly bleating about this it is no wonder the players and supporters are seeing this as an easy cop out. This is a professional sport, deal with it don't let it impact performance - Carneige are in the same boat I don't hear them moaning anywhere near as much - perhaps their coach is tad more pragmatic?

Wigan are missing

Tomkins - their star player
Williams - their starting half back
McIlorum - their starting hooker
O'loughlin - their captain/Sinfield

I what way have Wigan been more fortunate than Leeds?

I mean, I'm no Wigan lover, but they've had S Tomkins (all year), Williams (still), McIlorum (out for the season), and SOL out injured throughout the year so far, hardly great in the key positions. The "injury crisis but not in key positions" is much more applicable on Saints this year

Ok, quite happy to accept they've had issues and Saints as well. No need for a dong measurement contest.

It only serves to strengthen the argument that, within reason, injury set backs should be surmountable.

That is what separates the men from the boys how they cope with adversity

So no Hardaker, Briscoe, Moon, Hall, McGuire, Cuthbertson, Ablett, Ward, Delaney tomorrow. Cameron Smith or Luke Briscoe to play according to McDermott.

has achurch said anything or have the club allowed the yep to put his name to a press release

On the contrary. I have always highlighted the importance of Sinfield and JP and their retirement in the same season would have been the same body blow to any coach. Where I challenge you is in your attempt to belittle Mac's coaching achievements by implying these two did all the coaching. It wasn't an admission, as you put it, but a complement to the contribution of those two players in their final season.

Since last season my opinion is on record that the failure to replace Sinny was a serious error. Whilst you didn't seem to spot the danger and you were happy to go with Sutcliffe as KS's replacement ....and we know how that judgement has turned out and something you choose to gloss over in the factors affecting our results this season. How much of is this the responsibility of BM I do not know (and neither do you) but my hunch is that it bears all the finger prints of GH.



True. You have been critical of Mac since his arrival with regularity. Consistency can be a good thing however your history books would say in this case you have been consistently wrong.



You are ignoring the answer I have given you on this point. Which of these sides (and any others) had lost their two most influential players last year and their training ground in addition to having half the squad out injured? And which of these sides had both their most creative pivots missing for most of the season? You suggest a reason for these defeats was the lack of a game plan. What evidence do you have to back this up? What we all did see was plenty of evidence that we lost because of poor play and errors from our players.




Because you have repeated this for 5 years does not make it right. All coaches will get it wrong on occasions as they are human beings... I guess you are not perfect in your job either. You may have a problem with unused subs I don't and I am not sure you are qualified to give him lectures on squad management either.




Mac's record proves he is a good defensive coach and has done it for several years and his game plans have won us silverware. So why would he abandon this aspect of coaching now? and when experienced players make defensive errors why do you blame the coach more than the players? Given that more than half the squad is injured, precisely how would you improve the players form?

With regard to Watkins he has always been suspect defending in the wider channels and is more comfortable defending further inside. It is his defense and the injury list that are probably the only reason he is keeping his place on this seasons form. Against Saints Watkins made 23 tackle and no clean breaks compared with Keinhorst who made 40 tackles 2 clean breaks and 2 tries. He is just anonymous on attack even from the start of a game when he has made few tackles.

Even a one legged Delaney made 27 tackles and only played half a game. Do you know for sure which players were fit enough and good enough to replace Delaney?



Well you have repeated often enough over considerable time you view that we should change the coach. Whereas Warrington made a different judgement when they lost their two most influential players. They kept the coach and changed the key players and look what happened!

In defending Mac I am not suggesting he doesn't make errors as I think that goes with any job in sport. What I am asking is that you show a bit more loyalty and patience to a coach that has achieved so much for the club. I feel sure we do not know the full story of behind the scenes problems either which could include resentment for new recruits payment packages or new personalities not fitting in etc.

What I do think is becoming clear is that when Sinfield and JP were strutting their stuff certain of our players looked better players than they really are and without the on-field leadership telling them what to do they appear lost.

I for one am prepared to accept a season of transition without trophies to give him time to get the squad balanced again

your mac's dad and i claim my fiver

Did their two most influential players retire last year? Did they have their training ground destroyed pre season? Have they had to play without their main pivots all season? If so then a comparison is valid and you may have a point.

Having explained it already but you've clearly ignored Sutty imo is good enough to play 6 to replace Sinfield POSITIONALLY but in terms of Leadership & as is blatantly obvious Coaching/in Game management he hasnt been replaced & ive already pointed to GH for that.
Also i havent called for his sacking every year so lay of yer ott man crush defence of him.
My loyalty is to the Club & without question as for Wire so what 11 other Clubs think differrent as do most of the NRL.
In terms of other clubs injuries look at the respective line ups ALL missing key men yet been Coached well enough to adjust & compete most weeks.
Once again you IGNORE the squad management picking Delaney on 1 leg held together by plastercine for 20 minutes does us no favours pick someone fit simple as & when yer pack is knackered rotate all yer subs show me where others have utilised their squads & been a success as you like asking for evidence.
Re-Watkins he's proven more than enough give him the right service & he's the best Centre in the league simple as that. He's defending in the SR to carry Burrow but now they've resoted to using him as a battering ram as well.
In terms of transition i was one of thd few who said it was gonna be huge especially when Sinfield left but many played it down but that does not make the poor performances ok or acceptable when the same mistakes are made week in week out & the Coach still flogs unfit players & doesnt rotare his full bench.
Week 13 we are still seeing the same errors on/off the pitch you may be happy to accept it & not want change good for you but imo it shows the Coach cant get the response he used to nor do i think he has a plan B or C.
The Team need inspiration & off field guidence i dont believe they are getting it & performances back that up.

If these were the only challenges by which you judge adversity you might have a point. Other clubs will have issues that Leeds don't so I would say its swings and roundabouts.

On Wigan losing Williams, Tomkins and McIlorum would qualify as losing their main pivots!!

I'd go with now

Golding
L.Briscoe
Watkins
Keinhorst
Handley
Sutcliffe
Lilley
Galloway
Burrow
Garbutt
JJB
Ferres
Singleton

Subs
Achurch
Mullally
Walters
Baldwinson

For the cup game Hardaker should definitely be back surly

Hopefully Mcguire and Delaney and Moon and Cuthbertson can't be far off now?

Also Falloon maybe?

Wigan have had to cope with losing their better players for a few seasons. Leeds have access to equal or better facilities. Yes. It is, I do.

Interesting looking closer at the table with regards to Wigan. We all know about our attacking problems and how we are the lowest scorers in the league, the next lowest are Wigan who are only averaging just over 2 points a game more than us. Obviously they've got a better defensive record than us but even that's only less than a converted try better on average.

That's because in reality we're better than the league table suggests and Wigan are worse - they've just done one or two things right per game where we've gone wrong. That could be individual errors, refereeing mistakes or simply the bounce of the ball. In a parallel universe We're both mid-table on 12-14 points.

We've lost 6 games by 4 points or less, without half our team - we're really not that far away.

As for comparing any other team's injury problems to ours, I would struggle to be convinced. It's not just the number of injuries, but the relentless nature of them happening - I think the Saints game was the first time we've been able to name an unchanged 17 and we go and lose three players in the game. Wigan, on the other hand, have had contingency plans for O'Loughlin's regular absences for years and knew going in to the season that it would be a while before they saw Tomkins so it's not the same as planning to use him and losing him. Williams and McIllorum are big misses, but we've lost pretty much everyone with any experience, no wonder we're struggling.

Much of what you and other critics claim are just assumptions and not proven facts. I am not saying that the coach is mistake free or that he does not have responsibility for coaching. However I am saying that he is not to blame for circumstances outside his control and that it is most unreasonable to apportion the main blame on him for the bad form of his players or the threadbare side he is having to put out.

You are quick to accuse but slow to offer evidence to back up your allegations which is a really good example of a superficial argument.

1) It does not follow that because one man is in charge of coaching then input from others is therefore very limited. Proof please. Rhinoms would have you believe that Sinfield and JP did all the coaching last year!

Neither does it follow that Mac is guilty of self protection just because it suits your agenda to say so. To suggest BM has damaged the quality of coaching throughout the club is pretty strong stuff. Would you care to provide evidence of this also?

At the risk of being obvious again I would remind you that this coaching team that you deride is led by the coach of the year that won all three trophies last season. I am surprised you forgot this so quickly as I think they were the cause of you losing a few quid when you bet against them.

Of course on-field performances reflect the coaches input but to take these in isolation without due consideration of other crucial outside factors is a case of willful ignorance.

2) I agree the recruitment has not been good enough and I have stated this over a long period. I like you are not privy to the discussions in management meetings but it is well known that GH is the main man with regard to recruitment and purse strings. I do not recall BM jumping on a plane to Oz very often. It is equally likely that BM's input may well extend to just providing a wish list which GH then bins for all you know, so for to you assume the weakness in the squad is therefore "significantly" down to Mac is a big leap in the dark. You maybe right but you don't know for sure.

3) Youth development is a long process and Mac has hardly had a steady stream of quality young players good enough to integrate has he? But this process was in place before Mac took over and any changes made since he became responsible for all coaching will take years to bear fruit.

In this respect Wigan's coach has a huge advantage over our coach with a far better junior set up.

I agree about Singleton but have you considered that he may have already reached his potential? Some players keep on developing while others do not have the ability to keep progressing irrespective of a coaches ability. Singleton was carefully integrated yet must have now made almost 100 first team appearances - more than enough to cement a starting place if he were good enough. He seems not to have learnt much from playing alongside the likes of JP and Kylie either and has often disappointed.

4) You are not aware of the reasoning behind team selections this season or the actual availability of fit players. In professional sport players often play with niggles but subject to the fitness coaches/doctors approval and this season he has had little other choice has he? Do you play an experience mentally tough player who is carrying a niggle or a novice who is considered not ready yet? It is one thing playing youngsters in a confident winning side and quite another to risk a youngster where he may suffer career threatening confidence set backs.

5a) In over 55 years of supporting Leeds I cannot remember a season where we have been so badly effected by injuries. Losing a couple of players for the season has happened before and can be overcome as can a spell of just a few weeks without a number of players but for you to seriously underestimate the really crucial and negative effect of only having half a squad week in and week out with enforced team changes each week and being without key players for so long including our key pivot McGuire.

So which clubs have a more serious season long injury list than we do? And which clubs have been without their key pivots for so long on top of losing their two most influential players at the end of last season?

5b) I do not subscribe to your unwritten law that you have to use all your substitutes. Neither do I go along with all this emotive "flogging" players and last legs stuff. A half is only 40 minutes with a long rest at half time. For professional athletes to have to go off for regular rests is a sad reflection on our game. IMO a coach should try to keep his first choices on the field for the maximum time and save the interchanges for injuries and tactics depending how the game pans out.

6) My understanding is that it is the players that have been bleating about the lack of the usual adequate training facilities

Leeds lost their two most influential players at the end of 2015 but they had given the management of the club 12 and 10 months notice. Long enough to finalise and execute the existing succession plan and not really relevant to 2016.

Leeds' record with McDermott/Peacock/Sinfield will have been similar to Leeds' overall SL percentage which is around 67% or 8 wins from every 12 fixtures.

Leeds' record so far in 2016 must be around 25% or 3 wins from 12 fixtures.

Professionally run clubs don't need or offer excuses.

It was interesting listening to Andrew Johns and Gus Gould before last night's Wests v Rabbitohs game, as both teams were struggling hugely coming into the game (Wests got beaten 60-6 last week and the Rabbits had won only 1 of 6).

Johns' view was that completions, kicking to the corners and strong defence was the key. Gould was even more adamant that defensive attitude tells you all you need to know about the state of a club.

Leeds this year have been dire at both ends - currently lowest points scored for decades and second worst average of all time in terms of points against over all games, with only 1996 worse (but even in that dreadful year we averaged scoring 25 points per game compared to just 16 this year).

None of us are privy to what's been going on. All we can agree on is that we've been terrible and it simply isn't good enough. The only other question is whether the team and coach are able to turn things around this year or not. Personally I think from here it would be a (relative) success just to make the top 8.

Regardless I would hope changes will be afoot for next year.

Wigan have 32 players listed in their 1st team squad while we have 26 this is not equal in my book. Have you visited the facilities that both clubs have used this season in order to form your opinion?

Yes Wigan have had their injuries too but I do not think they have had the same numbers out week in week out for the whole season to date. I think they have been able to turn out a better balanced side each week with their main pivot available each week. This has meant they have won their close games sometimes with a bit of luck eg Hudderfield had 2 men in the bin the other week.

So Wigan are in 3rd spot while we are in 10th yet they have only scored 1 and a half points per game more than us and conceded 4 points per game less. Sport can be cruel at times and IMO there are too many variables and un-level playing fields to be able to make a convincing case that other teams have coped with adversity better than we have.

Could we have done better - yes. Should be have recruited better - yes. Have we had pre-season disruption to preparation - yes. Have we had senior players badly out of form - yes. Are we suffering from the loss of our two long term leaders on the field - yes. Do we have to be patient - yes. Can we get in the top 8 - yes. Can we win the Cup - Yes. Should fans stop panicking - YES.

SL in theory has levelled the playing field but perhaps as George Orwell would have said 'some are more equal than others.' To listen to the effect the loss of the training facilities have had I'm beginning to wonder if all Leeds' achievements were because of it: www.totalrl.com/rhinos-nearing-kirkstall-return/

SL in theory has levelled the playing field but perhaps as George Orwell would have said 'some are more equal than others.' To listen to the effect the loss of the training facilities have had I'm beginning to wonder if all Leeds' achievements were because of it: www.totalrl.com/rhinos-nearing-kirkstall-return/

Yesterday Wigan lacked these from their pack;
Flower McIlorum Crosby Farrell Tomkins O'Loughlin

I was until recently responsible for the team that manages one of the facilities, I was speaking yesterday to the supervisor about Rhino's use of the facilities, so yes.

So unless things are like for like you cannot compare resilience to adversity!!

I don't think anyone is panicking - just commenting on a very poor start to this season and as to how the club could possibly have done things differently/better

How do you easily assess whether one team had more injuries than another without getting all subjective on the matter? How about using squad numbers as an indicator of full strength ie. a score of 153 would represent squad numbers 1-17 all playing in a given fixture.

I currently have these for Leeds' opening six regular rounds:

Leeds 189 - 210 Warrington
Widnes 203 - 206 Leeds
Les catalans 192 - 234 Leeds
Leeds 239 - 251 Huddersfield
Wigan 231 - 231 Leeds
Leeds 213 - 225 St Helens

Of those only Warrington have won while being further away from their optimum starting number than their opponents.