I was responding to an argument of 'the only thing that matters is playing ability'. I think Hock is the perfect example of why that isn't so.

Hardly. If you are willing to excuse poor fitness levels, awful discipline, poor attitude, lack of concentration and chronic inconsistency (while actually playing rugby) then yes, he's brilliant. Kevin Sinfield can't have been fit to lace his boots.

All his problems are my entire point. However when it comes to PLAYING ABILITY he has more than Brett Ferres.

I was responding to a very specific and (IMO) poorly thought out point, how is this so difficult to understand? I don't want Hock. I don't want Ferres. I don't agree that playing ability is all that matters. I think Hock has more ability than Ferres. I think Ferres has made a much better account of himself with his more limited skill set. I think they're both scumbags.

You're not difficult to understand at all. I just fundamentally disagree with your assessment of Hock's level of "ability".
I also understood, pretty much straight away, that you have some really deep issues with whatever you think has gone on in Ferres's private life. As I don't know the guy at all, or Huby, or Mrs Huby, or any of the details surrounding what's gone on between them I don't really have an opinion.

Hock has the same disease as Luther Burrell and Steffon Armitage caught over the summer, where they go from good to world class by not being on the field.

Hock's legacy will always be that of unfulfilled potential, and the more unfulfilled that potential has been, the bigger that potential has become. Hock went from a hard running, dynamic second rower with hit and miss defence, poor decision making who gave away far too many stupid penalties, to the new Gorden Tallis because he barely played. In 9 years at Wigan he missed nearly 2 years through injury, 2 years from a drugs ban, made 1 dream team has only 9 international caps, and was bumming about at the lower reaches of SL before his 30's and out of SL before he is 32.

Big Jim you're getting hysterical again. Hock was a drug user, he was/is unfit, he's had more red cards / suspensions than we've had hot dinners. The list is endless.

Ferres finished within a whisker of top spot, and was outstanding for England against the Kiwis. He's not broken the law or brought shame on RL. Hardly letting the team down eh? He nobbled Huby's wife. The issue is between him and Huby. Nobody else. If i was in the Rhinos team, I'd be nagging GH to sign him. Class player.

Unless you were a second rower....


















....or had a REALLY fit missus

I'm not sure why people are having digs at Big Jim over his views - IMO they're perfectly legit, just different from others. I'd be very surprised if a few RL players didn't feel exactly the same way. That's why I'd talk to the senior players about signing him before any move was made - some might feel that they couldn't play with him because of what he's done.

I for one was a bit concerned with Falloon signing, although the one-year contract helps there as he's effectively on probation. Hopefully it was more of a poor club culture at the Titans than anything else.

FWIW several NRL clubs have a "no d*ckhead" policy, which I can fully understand and would rule them out of a bid for someone who's done what Ferres has.

Wasn't aware I was doing any "frothing" or even taking sides in the argument.

falloon was accused of cocaine dealing and was cleared end of story or he wouldnt of got work visa

with regard to off field matters, some don't necessarily have an impact on on-field ability (I won't say performance) and Ferres falls into this category. Others can (such as a ban from the game for 2 years) and Hock falls into this category.

Nobody minded when Keith Senior used to put it about and get in the papers

No personal digs from me. Just don't agree with a couple of the things he's said in this thread. Nothing personal, and he's entitled to his opinion.

He was notorious! Lee Smith too (he & keef combined in 2008 WC!!). Diskin was knocking off a friend of mine whilst his missus was pregnant. They are all young blokes who make mistakes and are certainly not holier than thou. This is why I don't buy into the "Rhinos family" nonsense. Then look at the others. Walker, Bailey, Hardaker etc.

I'll bet not one person on here who doesn't want Ferres would say we should dump Hardaker? Double standards.

You're talking about really quite different things though aren't you? Not being able to keep it in your pants is one thing (and something sportsmen have never been very good at), but none of our lads took a dump where they take dinner. You seem to have a complete blindspot with why I have an issue over Ferres' complete disregard for team.

If I cheat on my Mrs I upset her and that probably ends our relationship. If I shag her sister it tears a family apart. Do you see how those two things are the same offence but carry hugely different consequences? That's my point about Ferres.

As for Hardaker, he's made one mistake going out drinking when with England, one very ill advised use of language and he's got in to a bit of a drunken scrap. Not great by any stretch, but hardly unique for someone in their early 20's. I don't see how it's double standards to see misdemeanours that don't affect the team bond differently to those that make it impossible for two players to share a dressing room.

Finally, if you don't buy in to the 'Rhino's family nonsense' then maybe you could tell the players who've talked about the bonds they have with each other. I'm sure they'd be delighted to hear your insights.

The frothing comment wasn't aimed your way, JC. You did, however, allude to Ferres being a possible disruptive influence - as have several others. My point was really to query why Falloon's arrival wasn't/isn't ringing the same alarm bells?

Take your point re Falloon's past reputation, however he has since had the charges thrown out by the court so he should not carry the same risk of disruption... unless you believe that mud sticks?

its easier to be kept happy and on lesser money when winning and have the a possible job for life

Bloody hell...10 pages on a player that not one journalist or 'man in the know' has linked to us. I can't imagine the fall out if the YEP suddenly announced tomorrow that we'd snared him on a 1 year loan deal

I firmly believe it shouldn't. Falloon's past is of no consequence to me; ditto Ferres. My point was that no-one knows for sure which player, if either, poses the greater risk of disrupting team harmony. For although Falloon faced no charges, he was apparently comfortable in the company of some fairly unsavoury characters that damaged his team through association. Thinking about it, the same could be said for Ferres

Going by that example, the 'family' torn apart in question here was Huddersfield....not Leeds.

My point is still solid and valid.

Cheating on his missus with his mates missus doesn't affect Leeds Rhinos at all.

Hock is garbage and loses matches, not wins them.

Were some people on here Cheated on at some point haha.

Correct!!!!!

Big Jim, you DO have double standards. What Hardaker did (repeatedly) does affect the team because he got banned and dropped for his misdemeanours. Surely you can see that this directly affects Leeds Rhinos / rugby league in general? If I was skipper, I'd carpet him in front of the lads. So much talent, but so little brain.

Nothing Ferres has done, affects Leeds. Unless you're paranoid

...or if senior players don't feel the same way.

As for Middleton - cheating is funny? Does that mean you'll be glad if it happens and have a laugh and a pint with the guy that does it?

But if he takes a liking to a Rhinos players wife, that could be a disruption.