Shame our own coach hasn't got one, isn't it?

Ok do you a deal we'll still swap and we'll still pay Roys salary

I'm not sure why people have assumed Kirke, who has been a 1st teamer for 9 years will be on a pittance, especially when he has recently, bizarrely, garnered interest from other clubs.

I bet he's on a great deal more than some U19 lads who could easily do a better job. I'm certain he's on more than a tackling dummy who would offer much more.

Forgot Cas on purpose?

No, I restricted it to teams in with a chance of winning silverware. HTH.

Who have also had their issues on the road this season.

What is concerning is that are pack were well beaten by tactics that most teams can employ which is high energy aggressive running and an organised defence.

Unfortunately bar JP and Kylie do not have props regularly cross the game line. Wigan, Hudds, St Helens are building imposing packs and it remains to be seen whether we have the where with all to regularly beat these types of teams.

As of now I would bite the bullet and replace Bailey with a decent prop. Bailey has stolen a wage for far too long and if he can't get a starting place in this pack and at his age then he's not ever going to make the grade so sell him to Bradford, London for the train fair out of HQ. This would then give us JP, Kylie, Cuthbertson, Singleton, A.N Other. Kirke, Baldwinson.

As for McGuire, unfortunately Friday highlighted that his best days and pace are well behind him and we need a change.

Points well made - the cornerstones of our pack are two 36 year olds. We need to off load at least of our other props & bring in some more muscle/enthusiasm.
As I've said on other threads we have to find some pace at half back because Friday night pairing are pedestrian !

There is no need to bring Ryan Bailey into the debate .

There's every need. As average has Bailey has been recently he'd offer far more than Kirke the Shirke jogging half dly around the pitch like he's carrying two rolls of carpets under his arms.

Built like Tarzan, plays like Jane's wet tampon, Kirke that is.

Having watched the game this morning I think the first try is definitely dumb play by kirke. If you are first man of the tackle you should make a big effort to get in to defend in the A position. However, they're should have been someone else in there already. Having lost that ruck I would have expected more urgency getting back, and awareness what was going on over his shoulder, but the blame die that try was not all his fault though it makes him look stupid.

The second try was more the man outside kirke defending too wide, though still a pretty poor attempt to tackle.

In defense of him being lazy, the set after the first try Kirke made all the tackles before a kick on the 4th. He's not lazy but his defence is certainly causing some concerns, which if that is what he's there for is not good

You disregard cas away? That's a bloody tough place to win especially this year. A great win

Bailey average! If Bailey had hit the giddy heights of average for the last two years it would have been a massive improvement to what he has actually served up. He has stolen a shirt for the last two years yet you think that he is suddenly going to change. Look up the definition of madness as picking Bailey would apply. He never runs at pace straight at the opposition line but does a stupid little shuffle before he gets slammed on his backside 10 yards behing where he started off. His performance against Wigan was a gutless embarrassment as he ended up as Bateman's bitch. BJB would offer more at prop than Bailey is currently giving.

Time to tell Bailey to take himself and his baggage to any club that are daft enough to show an interest and let them pick up the tab for this joke of a prop.

And that's the few occasions when he actually takes a hit up. When you think leeds often have him on the bench along with kirke you realise they actually play alot of games effectively 2 men down in comparison to the opposition and quickly you start to realise how much extra workload peacock and leuluai have, both 36.

I've suggested in other threads that we should off load both Kirke & Bailey (to be told that we can't dismantle the team in one go) ! A lot of people seem to agree that BOTH should be moved on - if neither are good enough/contribute.
Surely we are better making room for either new signings &/or promoting youngsters ? It may take time to re-establish a top team but is that not better than putting up with what we have now ?

What's quite bad is that even though he didn't play on Friday (in what was a pretty team wide shoddy showing), Bailey has received more criticism in the last 48 hours on here following Leeds' poorest showing of the year than most of the team....only Kirke and McGuire have surpassed him in that regard.

When Bailey is being quoted as a better replacement than what took the field on Friday then you call it as you see it. The introduction of Bailey would not improve the pack and if that is the case then why the hell do we persist in giving him game time and a new contract. I'd have Mulhern in the 19 for the rest of the season and off load Bailey and Kirke at the end of the season and recruit two new props that will share the workload with JP, Kylie and Cuthbertson. If Yates is anything like then that will be a bonus.

Bailey and kirke do not offer that much but they are a known quantity. Our pack is based on peacock doing loads of work and the other props filling the gaps. When peacock can't do the level of work we need to start making changes, the process has started with Singleton getting regular game time and the cuthburtson signing. Interesting to see what happens in the coming months

Also worth bearing in mind that a number of players will be more concerned with the Challenge Cup at this stage. May explain some comments re McGuire for example?

Woe is me,I am in the wilds of Southern Europe have just got an internet connection wish I had not bothered.
I have recorded the game, will watch it on my return this Thursday .
Reading the postings looks like we were dreadful ,hope it's just a one off and not the sign of things to come.

Wouldn't you run at him too?

Memo for Kirke: 'Turn and face'

We were terrible on friday, I honestly cant remember when we last played as bad

Kirke for me offers nothing at all, yes he makes some tackles but isn't that the absolute minimum requirement from a pro super league player?

As bad as we were lets not over react, I still think we have as good chance as any other team to be successful in both competitions this year

I'm really concerned about the flat unstructured rugby that is creeping into our game again.

Is this team, pack in particularly, solely reliant upon effort over structure? Will we just get burnt out year after year?

Its one loss. No big worry, but the horrible no structure, one out along the line basic play was still there. That should be abolished. McD should be ripping into them. If that doesn't go then we will win sod all and will be burnt out from too much effort over structure, just as last season.

Last please Kev & McGuire, kick at first receiver and stop f'in about chancing the arm. You've been sussed out. Its what has won you all those rings, dont abandon it now.

Your memory doesn't stretch back that far then does it? Some of the humpings we've had in regular season games against the likes of Hudds, Saints and Wigan in the last few years have been far, far worse than Friday.

We had an off day. We got beaten. It's been exception rather than rule this year, so let's not panic.

The point is though. In all three defeats this year, the defensive tactics of the opposition have being exactly the same.

All three teams, have still made their mistakes, all three have still made missed tackles also, yet in all three games we have struggled to get an attacking game together.

I would say that is more the worry. Can we overcome those defensive tactics in our game plan?