Options 1 and 2 don't fit your erroneous argument so I can see why you've chosen to ignore them.

Same reason you're ignoring my questions/points - they don't support your argument.

Option 3 - Finish top and win Grand Final......happened on 8 occasions.

Option 1 - Finish top but get knocked out in playoffs......6 occasions (4 times beaten finalists, 2 times didn't reach Old Trafford) (oh and the last 3 times teams finished top and didn't win the Grand Final it was Leeds who beat them, just thought i'd include that to keep your Leeds hatred well fueled)

Option 2 - Finish 5th and win the Grand Final.....happened on 1 occasion.

I included my option because its happened on more occasions than both of yours put together.

GAME, SET, MATCH......ME! You can keep reaching if you want but tonight you share something in common with your beloved Leeds, you've both been well beaten.

[url=http://viewtopic.php?p=16761709#p16761709Ignoring points which don't suit your argument is something you are quite adept at.[/url

Congratulations on making no distinction whatsoever between the different playoff systems that's been in operation during the super league era just because it doesn't suit your erroneous argument.

Oh dear Keith you do persist......3 seasons of 8 team playoffs.
2 times 1st place has won (Leeds 09, Wigan 10) and had Richie Myler not stepped offside it could well of been 3 for 3.

I never see you critcising the Aussies who have used an 8 team or sometimes more playoff system since the start, but in many minds the Aussies can do no wrong.

Well just to chip in, I think it's very dangerous to say the league games are meaningless. Meaningless for whom????
Fans? Well fans who go to a game want to see a team performing well.
Coaches? Royce Simmons springs to mind.
Clubs? Well clubs get the majority of their revenue from fans, the monetary value of the GF is actually limited when taken against the income stream from home games.

In the end the GF is the polish on the season and you can shine a pretty poor season really well with a good run of games. But do not underestimate the power of the £. Clubs are businesses and if clubs started to adapt to SL by underrunning their teams for 90% of the year, then you will get fans following that pattern which will lead to fans, reducing attendance until the playoffs.

At the moment it's not happened, this is mostly down to the top 2 generally winning the playoffs. But lets say Royces plan to run a underpreped team worked and Saints then got a roll on towards the end of the year and won the GF from 4th, 5th, 6th or worse. Then if other teams said hey Leeds have done it, so have another team, this is the new way to get success, fans would catch on quickly.

I actually prefered the Oz method as it gave the top 2 a better chance, now top 4 all have equal chance bar home and away. In the end if all the above did happen, then the RFL would change the playoffs as the game is the key and the quality of the game, not the ever expanding ways to be crowned champions.

The rewarding of mediocrity in Super League has indeed only been in place for 3 seasons. Richie Myler stepping offside notwithstanding, it wasn't going to be that long before some team accepted the gift and made a mockery of the current playoff system.


I've never been asked for my opinion on it but congratulations on making assumptions on what you believe my opinion to be. I don't like the Top 8 playoff system in the NRL either but teams in that competition don't finish in the Top 8 if they are garbage all season.

No one ask's for your Leeds opinions but you don't half bloody give them.

Leeds 2011 5th Place......W15 D1 L11
New Zealand Warriors 2011 6th Place......W14 L10
Sydney Roosters 2010 6th Place.......W14 L10
Paramatta Eels 2009 8th place.....W12 D1 L11
ALL TEAMS GRAND FINALISTS

Does Super League reward 'garbage' any worst than NRL?

In 2009 and 2010 in Super League it was 1st vs 2nd, last year Warrington couldn't get the job done and Wigan ran out of steam after the Cup Final (although Leeds the opponents that day grew stronger). If you want to criticise any teams in Super League why not go on their boards and get them for letting the game down and turning it into the 'mockery' its now become.

I share your concerns. But the aim should be to improve the product of the regular rounds rather that de-value the play offs.

I'm also a little curious as to when Leeds, or any other team, actually did play for an entire season as if every game mattered.

Remember having the odd thrashing under smith and it did us no harm, saints were on fire compared to recent weeks and we did not get enough ball in the right areas till game was gone, had a feeling after ten minutes it was not going to be our day but a good kick up the ass from time to time to keep your feet on the ground not a bad thing.

The Hair issue is complete Bollox no hair style influences how you perform ,are organised or how well you'll play a game of RL.
ST's were too fast ,too strong and ruthless we just couldn't get going and we didn't do ourselves any favours. Plenty of stick for Mcshane and Smith but what hapened to JP ,Ablett ,Sinfield ,Burrow ,etc etc etc ALL were guilty of poor performances i agree with those who thought Kirke went ok and i thought Moore looked far more determined than anyone in a Rhinos shirt.
When the gaps appeared the younger lads were exposed and our D was ragged all night Ward actually ran quite well and imo he should get another go next week.
As for RB at 7 what options did he have?
I do agree he AND Sinfield made some awful 5th tackle calls but the lack of options was obvious and the ST's D line speed was spot on tbf.
It grates when we get pasted but like most say it's one game and we are quite accustomed to getting hammered away at ST's for some reason.
We move onto next week and expect a reaction against a fired up Giants team.

With regards to the playoff system, I've posted on another forum (i'm a saints fan) that it would be better if the team that came top of the league would go on to play for the world club challange as it's rewarding them for being the most consisted team throughout the season.

Playoffs continue as normal.

The game I saw last night had a highly motivated Saints side catch Leeds cold. They really built momentum in the first 20 minutes and we never got into the game at all from then on. Great performance from Saints very ordinary performance from us games like this happen and the question, as ever, is what did we learn? What can we fix if we need to? For me the key to what kind of team the 2012 Vintage Rhinos is will be more to do with how we respond and how we go against 'High Flying' Huddersfield on Friday.

This really was a very bad hair day. Perhaps the most appropriate word to describe the Leeds performance is “shocking”

Shocking is the shade of pink (not red) that the players had applied to their heads and one could be excused for thinking that the hair salon is not the best place to prepare for a visit to St Helens.

From the very first minutes it was clear that Saints were running hot and we had left our heads at Nicky Clarkes!

Smith was awful. Slow in deed and slow in thought. Surely a pre-requiste for a full back is to get to an attacking kick with all speed. I would have also thought that having cleared your own line and faced with a line of defenders rushing at you, the best plan would be to go low into a contact with the objective of getting to ground and not allowing yourself to be carried back over your line in an embarrassing upright repose.

McShane played with the intent of proving why he is 3rd choice hooker. The pack were terrible as a unit underlined by the scary thought that Kirke looked our best forward. Our half backs were invisible and our right side defence leaked like a sieve.

But the game was lost around the ruck with Roby dominant and congratulations to Saints who on that form would have beaten any side in SL. We allowed them quick PTB’s and they did not return the compliment. Once we let them get on a roll there was no stopping them and even our one try came from a forward pass. In all aspects of the game we just did not compete.

Coincidentally the two non pink tops Clarkson and Moore tried their best and perhaps the time has come to give the latter more game time in place of a sadly out of form JP. However we did go into the game missing 2 of our best inform attackers and because of this we ended up with changes in 3 out of 4 of the pivotal positions. Like the pink hair this was not the reason for our poor performance but neither helped either.

With most sides dropping points only pride was lost at Saints

Lets hope that like Samson they regain their strength when the real hair grows out. (Or they shave it all off which would be more sensible)

I disagree Seth. We did have the opportunities to change the pattern of the game. After the whirlwind start we got our share of possession and territory on Siants line. However, on at least three occasions, perhaps four, we ran it on the last tackle rather than putting in our kicks. Had we been smarter with those opportunities and perhaps posted a try at 18-6 with 20 mins gone who knows how brittle Saints new found confidence would be?

Without over reacting to last night Lee Smith has looked pedestrian of thought and foot for 18 months now. Should Webb be unavailable again I'd like to see BJB at 1 and Chisolm given a chance on the wing.

Hardaker will make a very good centre but I want to seem him use Hall sooner rather than later. His step off the left cut back right is becoming predictable. I'm sure he'll make it though.

I though Delaney was tremendous and Griffin and Kirke were good. As for the rest, meh, move on, get back on the training pitch and start again Friday.

It wasn't just the lack of kick (seriously missed McGuire in that regard), but of those times you mentioned we also for some silly reason, rather than try and exploit the possible overlap we actually gave a completely telegraphed inside pass instead in heavy traffic areas.

Delaney, Griffin, Moore and Kirke can look themselves in the mirror today, knowing that they had a decent shot. Everyone else should be feeling a bit sheepish.

Wouldn't have a problem with this

Isn't that part of the suggested format from the RFL for a revised World Club Challenge?

They are looking at top 3 in each league, but I think it was stated that the team finishing top of league would be one of these if the two grand finalists do not include the team finishing top.

It wouldn't work in it's present format what you are suggesting, as the current "one off" game is for champions only. And the only champions are the Grand Final winners.

The last tackle options were awful at times. Especially down our left edge. Burrow/Sinfield were giving crash balls to Hardaker but he obviously isn't big/strong enough to push players out of the way. That's not a criticism of him, it's just not one of his strengths. Those type of passes may have worked if Senior was charging onto them, he isn't anymore.

Agree RE Delaney, Kirke and Moore. Moore really looks like he wants to take his chance with both hands.

The chances of a Saints backlash were always pretty high tbh, we just couldn't match them. Looking forward to Friday, both ourselves and Huddersfield were well beaten will have points to prove.

I agree with you Gareth, what leeds had wasnt momentum they wasted 3 opportunities to gain momentum/repeat sets with poor decision making early on, the battle was then lost and the game quickly got away.

Lee Smith didn't take his chance. Looked slower than Wellens.

In the end it was a one off match. Saints had alot to play for and Leeds well

Injuries and suspensions told. It drag your players out of their better positions to fill a role elsewhere. I always see Sinfeild as Leeds controller. He lets Maguire and Borrows run riot in front of him, whilst stearing the team around the pitch and putting in a killer kicking game. Last night he was more in the thick of it alongside another player who has not played in the halves for sometime.

You missed a bit of the biff with Bailey out and another prop getting a back injury early on.

Smith is exciting in attack but never has been a defender. Also you had no way of knowing what you where up against. When you look at Saints vids this year. None of what we did last night were on those vids, you would have to look at plays from 4 or 5 years ago.
No one bar Widnes has seen Lance play in the halves.

Some days it does not happen, we on the other hand had Sia out. So when you have bodies back and know our game plan, it may not be such one way traffic. ( although I could live with that).

Will be interesting to see if Smith is picked next time either Webb or one of the wingers is missing. With Hood and Ward getting debuts all ready this year, Chisolm must be very close to being the next considered (with BJB moving to FB if its Webb injured). With Smith, McShane and Moore given the opportunity to prove they should be getting more game time, only Moore gave his chances a boost.