Go sit in the corner with the dunces cap on.

If God didn't make him gay, who or what did?
You see, it sounds like you are now saying that [ubeing[/u gay is a choice, whereas earlier you seemed to be saying that having gay sex was the choice.

Reminds me of the weekend I tried S&M, necrophilia and bestiality............until I realised I was flogging a dead horse.








[size=85Ladies and gentlemen, please put your hands together for the seventh annual outing of the "flogging a dead horse joke".[/size

It may be just my vivid imagination, but I'm drawing comparisons with posters on this thread and characters in the film Seven.....

When I heard Morgan Freeman was given head at the end of the film imagine my disappointment when I went to the cinema with a box of tissues.

Only ONE box of tissues ? I'm disappointed with you G1 ...

Religion is a very personal thing and how it impacts on us all is largely down to fate. Which country, family or even street you were brought up in determines what you may or may not believe. Some accept everything they have been told without doubt while others start to question certain aspects and disagree with other aspects until they have totally outgrown it. Each man to his own.

Different people talk of their version of God as the one true God. (Is arrogance a sin?) Perhaps the reason for this is that all the religious scriptures (records) were written by man and not a God therefore they are almost certain to contain many errors and prejudices. They were also mostly not recorded at the time and due to translations and politics etc have questionable prominence.

If Christians had fully accepted the written word then they would all still be Roman Catholics. The fact that there has been so much diversity in this one religion over the years is due to man’s often corrupt and convenient interpretation of the scriptures to suit his particular needs at the time.. The CofE was founded because divorce was not allowed in the Christian Church plus of course a desire for more power. Think of how many sects there are in the USA each who quote the Bible as justification of very narrow views on life.

So to believe that every single word or idea written in your particular version of the Bible, Torah, Koran, Vendas, Dhammapada or whatever, is correct and has to be observed is very dangerous as it can lead to religious extremism which as we all know has been the cause of so many wars over the centuries.

Science has also proved many things to be different from what the scriptures say for example evolution. But what is clear is that if God made man he also gave him a brain with the ability to reason, question and think things out for himself.

I was brought up a Catholic but with parents that encouraged open discussion. As I matured I started to realize that there were different aspects that I could not accept. I suppose I first realized I had started to lapse when I stopped feeling guilty about buying a packet of 3 at the barbers!

So I say any religion is ok if you believe in it. If you want to go to church every Sunday that’s ok or if you prefer to dance naked around a fire in the woods thats also ok. How you behave is your own business. How others behave is their’s. Live and let live.

Kirkstaller is entitled to his views, which on this subject I have to disagree, but I think the fact that he chose Sir Humphrey for his avatar would rather indicate he is not homophobic.

Maybe this version of the film would see a severed penis or even a bottom delivered to mr freeman.

Found this while do a spot of research - very interesting.

[urlhttp://www.soulforce.org/article/homosexuality-bible-gay-christian[/url

I'd agree 100% with that and add that picking and choosing the bits to believe and not believe is equally dangerous so best avoid it all together in my view.

Thats a great article. Its long but worth reading

Indeed

However is it not again somebody desperately trying to interpret ancient text to suit a personal agenda ?

Why not forget the infernal damn contradictory "holy books" ( they should be called holey books - as in full of holes ) and as others have stated live and let live, without ANY religious dogma fairy stories to impede and confuse us ?

Somebody else stated if I choose not to believe in a god I shouldn't try to stop others. I agree.... Problem is I do not " choose " to NOT believe... I WANT to. We all do.
It would be nice to savour the promise of an after life. i'm no different to countless other men with their disparate religions and faith throughout human history. However, there is no logic to it and I am convinced this life is all we have. Embrace it.

Your points are very interesting, and your faith must be applauded for it to have such an effect on you. However I am not religious whatsoever though I respect peoples choices, I have raised 3 children and my oldest son is gay. I knew he was gay from a very early age, his mannerisms, and various other aspects of his behavior made it fairly obvious. Your God never made my son gay, nor did any cultural or societal factors, however there is some research that suggests biological aspect may play a part who knows, one thing I can assure you of is my son [uwas[/u born gay. The sad part is I watched him as a teenage encounter homophobic behavior which broke my heart and no doubts his, do you not consider if he had a choice he may have changed who he was due to small minded people who believe my son is a sinner! Your god knows nothing!

Elliott Whitehead’s not getting the baton


[urlhttp://www.pinknews.co.uk/2011/11/24/bradford-bulls-rugby-player-warned-over-shirtless-photo-shoot-comment/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Pinknews+%28Pink+News%29[/url

He's not exactly renowned for his intelligence is he. Apparently he "fort" Reardon had let the side down.

if the RFL are serious about supporting the LGBT Charter they should give him a 5 match ban (again!)

Don't be silly, a quiet word in his ear and a slap on the wrist would be sufficient. The lad is young and daft and didn't mean to cause offence.

Imagine my shock when after reading this whole thread, it's not actually about one man's "tackle" taking an unfounded and irrational dislike to another man's "tackle".

Some threads on here these days, you just can't make sense of their titles.



Oh and for the record, I'm neither religious or gay, but believe that either group have not only a right to their opinions, but also to practice them as long as no mental or physical harm comes to anyone else as a result.

I thought it was going to be about how certain posters seem disgusted to the point of ire that Ian Kirke's line defence isn't heterosexual enough.

I know, it's a BUMMER when you expect one thing only to find another isn't it....

Noble and indeed ideal.......unfortunately too many followers of religion use its cloak of "respectability" and divinity to continue to foster and perpetuate prejudices and bigotry: vindicating their hatred and/or unacceptance of differences. Religion is no more than a euphemism for superstition (belief without foundation)....why don't we give believers of superstitions and cults the same reverence and special exemptions to secular law ??
How far should we go in allowing religious freedom within secular law ?? Every individual will have his/her own idea at where the line should be drawn. Is the majority view the correct view ?
Some would consider it their religious right to decapitate those apostates that don't believe the same as they do.
I personally don't think anybody should be allowed to inhumanely slit the throats of live animals to satisfy their religious freedoms of how to eat meat.
One exemption to any law will only open the door for others to test and prod its solidity. We've now got hindus wanting to burn bodies on open pyres. Without having the hindu faith would I be discriminated against if I wanted to do the same to my late father ? What about those of viking descent wanting to send their deceased out on burning boats ? Should they be discriminated against ? I'm rambling now.....

Basically within a secular non-theocratic country there should be no room for any religious influence on law. Viva la France. State sanctioned marriage between [iconsenting[/i adults should not discriminate in any way because of gender. It is the business of nobody else who those [iconsenting[/i adults might be ...whatever their superstition/religion might be [iperceived[/i to decree otherwise.

I knew when I posted that, that at least one Bulls fan would come leaping to his defence.

Being young and daft is no excuse. Drunk drivers and joyriders are often young and certainly daft. That doesn't excuse them when they cause injury. Would you excuse a young daft junkie who burgled your home to get money for a quick fix because they were young and daft.

Apart from being young and daft he is in the public spotlight an should be setting an example. If his comments had been racist rather than homophobic there would be a rightful clamour for a meaningful punishment.

IMO the RFL were right to come down heavy on Castleford for the homophobic chanting of their fans. They should be equally rigorous when individuals who should be acting as role models publicly air their prejudice or bigotry.

The main point of yours I disagree with, Kirkstaller, is the argument that people are not born gay and their sexuality can be changed through religion. From my experiences I can assure you that nothing in my upbringing has caused me to be gay. For as long as I've felt sexual attraction it has been towards men (saying this you can still send Cheryl Cole my way cause I would...) and to me it is as natural/simple as my like for pasta and dislike for cottage cheese. It's not something I have a choice over but I'd be dammed if I let it get in the way of my achieving anything in my life.

Like yourself (if my memory serves me correct) I'm a whistle-blower within the RFL and I can honestly say that my colleagues and the structures within the RFL create an environment which makes me feel comfortable to be open about my sexuality. Not to everyone, I don't feel the need to shout it from the roof tops and ram it down everyone's throat (no pun intended) as it is my personal life. It is just excellent to be able to have an environment where I can be open with colleagues/friends and not have to hide my personal life from them (like I have felt the need to in previous situations be in school/college/university).

I see your intolerances coming from religious belief rather than prejudice and as such, I don't see your views as being ill-thought out as they are based on your well researched opinions (based on material that you feel is credible) rather than your unwillingness to accept the difference of others. I respect this far more than off-the-cuff homophobic remarks you get.

Back on topic - I think the concept of the anti-homophobia game (it is actually going to comprise of a round of matches a la State of Mind round this season) will help to further improve the inclusive environment that Rugby League provides. I hope it can also help in tackling the stereotypes that some people have of gay individuals (this has nothing to do with anything said in this thread as it has all been intelligent debate) and come to show that the difference between you and I starts and stops at who I sleep with. Kudos on the weigh your anchor in poo bay whoever came up with it - that's a new one to me and did make me laugh.

on the subject of religous tollerance .We have just had thanksgiving over here and ive been watching a few historacle tv shows about this holiday.The pilgrim father's were puritans, or christian fundimentalists who traveled on the Mayflower to Escape religous intollerance in England.When they first landed and started scouting around they stumbled on an empty native village,but not deserted ,,they proceeded to plunder its winter stores ,there excuse for that was "god has led us to this" thou shalt not steal was ignored.The natives helped them in the early days,showed them how to plant ,what vegatation to eat etc .the natives did this because their population was depleated by desease brought by earlier Europeans,and they too needed help.The plymouth pilgrims still thought of the natives as savages and godless heathens and god had led them to the promised land and they still followed the bible as they later proceeded with ethnic cleansing.

From someone of my vintage the most common exposure (oo-er) to gay men was on TV where the absolute stereotype has not changed one iota despite all of the efforts to educate and assimilate, and although there is a distinction to be drawn between being "camp" and homosexual (the two can be exclusive), most peoples image of a gay man is very definitely a camp as a row of pastel tents persona in the style of Charles Hawtry, Kenneth Williams, Larry Grayson, etc, etc which are personified today in exactly the same way by the likes of Alan Carr, Graeme Norton, Dale Winton, Anthony Cotton, Gok Wan etc etc.

Its this acceptance of camp behaviour in show business (all of the above named people were very popular and much loved by the public) that leads I believe to the acceptable use of what you might call "a gay insult", things like "oooh thats a bit gay" are not used with any maliciousness or prejudice and probably wouldn't be hurtful to a gay person, indeed you will hear them use such phrases themselves, Alan Carr last night on Live At The Apollo being a prime example.

I suspect that the context of Elliot Whiteheads comments were probably just that, although he has to be a prime example of a big daft lad to publicly broadcast them and we can place him firmly in the filing cabinet of people who think that Twitter is a private messaging service, he was using a "gay" tag in a light hearted manner and in doing so was highlighting the fact that homophobia, unlike racism, does have a lighter side to it which is exploited constantly by the entertainment media.

I work with a young 23 year old post-grad who recently confided in my about his homosexuality and he often uses the term 'gay' as a dig or in banter - "that's proper gay" or "don't be so gay".