We have common sense, which should be enough

So it's common sense to keep supporting these failing clubs?
How long do we "shield" them from the whole franchise process?
How long do we give them to actually gain reasonable attendances?

Have had an idea to make all this easier...

You know we play all these games of rugby every week, and they keep dishing out these mythical "points" for the people that win the games, and the people that don't win don't get any. Well, if we had some sort of "table" to record who had earned these "points", and more importantly in this case, who has failed to earn them, then at the end (you know the bit when we normally have the Grand Final), whoever has the least points isn't allowed to play in Super League the year after?

Thoughts?

I'm all for it.

When the teams in the Championship are strong enough of course, which currently, they aren't.

I've no evidence, nor am I sure I have any common sense, but it's hardly a stretch to theorise that Sky would pay more money for a sport with a presence in London and Wales than it would with a sport whose presence is solely limited to Yorkshire and Lancashire. There can't be much scope to sell many more satellite dishes and sports subscriptions in the heartlands and that is what Sky care about.

Plus, it seems to me that Harlequins and Crusaders are already, in their short existence, doing much better work at grass roots in their areas than many heartland clubs are doing in theirs.

I'd also like to see them persevere with an idea and give it time to grow, especially in Crusaders case.

Just my twopenneth but I think both are worth an other three years.

Plus, how do these two clubs crowds compare to long standing heartland clubs like Salford and Wakefield? Is there that much of a disparity?

So they'd have to Yo-Yo for a few years. Deal with it.



It could also strengthen the Championship because players that are not quite SL standard, but "better than Championship" standard (Kirke etc) would be more likely to sign for Championship clubs if promotion was a possibility. It would be seen as less of a failure to succeed in SL, and more a success for getting Sheffield (whoever) promoted.

The main reason the RFL don't do it, is nothing to do with whether the Champ clubs could cope, it's to do with not having control over whether or not Crusaders, Catalans or Quins go down.

How long do we give Widnes, Salford, Wakefield, etc to ge reasonable attendances? they have a 100 year head start and arent massively in front.

The main point i'm making is that not every club has been judged on the level playing field the RFL are selling this Franchise system as and as a way to "improve" standards.
What about the grass roots work Wakey have put in and the success of their junior teams in recent years?
Again with the Sky money does that then make the Welsh and Quinns untouchable and how much would we lose as a sport if they were judged not SL standard?
The franchise system is a new way of judging our clubs so everyone of them should be judged the same from the same start point imo.
There seems to be an attitude that it's a straight choice between Salford and Wakey who gets the boot and i think thats wrong if the assessmenst are done fairly and on a level playing field for all clubs involved.
How long have the London club had?
Of course the grass roots stuff is great and important but again does that make them untouchable down south and in Wales?

They should ALL be judged the same from when the franchise system was introduced afterall does'nt the RFL always preach that the past is just that when they are making thes decisions?
It's easy to have a dig at Wakey ,Salford and Cas but why not question the complete feck ups that happened at London Broncos ar the recent Farce at the Crusaders?

What were they?

But they arent all at the same point, they arent all starting from an equal position. To expect an expansion club to be in the same position as a club like Wakefield before we admit them to SL will simply mean we never expand.

Id question both, but im not going to start throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The growth which has come in London and Wales since the game was introduced there embarrasses some of the heartland areas. Yes things can and should be done better but thats no reason to just give up.

I think they are all judged by the same criteria rhinoms. Some will be better at certain categories than others.

We cannot escape the fact that the TV revenue is crucial and Wales and London probably play an important part in that.

Yes that gives them a slight advantage over Wakefield, for example, but Wakefield have their own advantages. Wakefield have the advantage of being based slap in the middle of the games heartlands and having a much easier access to junior talent. That Wakefield have so long ignored this for so long (until recently) and filled their team with Kolpak Stiffs is their own fault. Not wishing to pick on Wakefield, just using them as an example.

Some teams have bigger advantages than others in this process. That's just a fact of life.

We have an unfair advantage over most clubs because of the corporate support we can expect to receive by being based in a large commercial city like Leeds so we can all be judged on this equal utopia you crave I am afraid.

The Broncos went into administration and the SL clubs voted to save them and they did'nt suffer a points penalty either.
The Crusaders farce is straight forward we told by the RFL and the original oweners everything was fine and dandy and they'd be a success in south Wales when many others doubted it and look what happened!
I'm not anti-expansion fellas although it does'nt sound like it i just want EVERY club to be treated and Judged the same way and whilst there seems to be a "certainty" about who goes it's not a level playing field imo.

Smokey/G1 Some great and valid points and i agree with most of it.
Smokey my point is that no matter how long the clubs have been around the franchise system is new and therefore i think we should be judging from it's introduction.

If only the team that had won the Championship grand final last year had met the criteria for super league entry....





I agree that Catalans should have a different set of rules, it's a different country and they had a relatively large base of players to choose from, there were quality players not making there way to super league
The crusaders example is difficult because fast tracking them into super league meant they hadnt time to build up a juniour structure, a few years of being at the top of the championships would have helped them grow a fan base and a youth set up
scorpions are the hope for welsh rugby league and i wish them all the luck they will need, crusaders are a waste of time for me and the RFL blew any potential they had just like gateshead paris and sheffield in the past

expansion for me should be about the number of people playing and watching the game, not how far they have to travel to do so

Couldn't agree more... good point well made.

Crusaders in SL simply expedites the growth of the amateur game. Trying to spread into wales offering them only semi-pro RL would never have worked, they have a long history of RU and plenty of RU teams. Crusaders massively increase the visibility of the game in Wales, and will help hugely with the building of the amateur structures. SWS wouldnt exist had it not been for the crusaders.

Paris was never going to work. It was simply a poorly executed mess. Sheffield and Gateshead should have worked and the game would be a lot further on now had we bitten the bullet and taken the pain when we needed to and kept those clubs going.

Thanks, must have been in a coma when that happened!

More evidence that Super League (and its member clubs) need a London team as much as they need Super League??

Murdoch's nobodies fool. He wouldn't be interested in RL in this country without it adds to his profits/portfolio.

Crusaders and the Harlequins are a price worth paying by the RFL/professional clubs.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were clauses in the TV contract if an outpost club was allowed to disappear.

It wouldn't surprise me if you stick pins in an effigy of Mr Murdoch! And what is wrong with profit?

Nice to see Widnes preparations for SL next season well under way.

They've announced Danny Sculthorpe as their first major signing.

Why do you ask?

You are bang wrong!

Sculthorpe has signed on for the rest of this season, for which we will still be in the championship.

Three and a half thousand at Salford Saturday night. Is it time to abandon attempts to expand the game into Manchester?

7,700 at Saints on Friday night. Is it time to abandon attempts to expand the game into Widnes?