While the stats show that you are correct about Diskin this season in terms of breaks, maybe you need to take off your 'Buderus rose tinted glasses'. Looking at stats from this season, Buderus has made 1 break, compared to Diskin having made none. Buderus has made 23 runs from DH, compared to 21 for Disko. However Diskin has made more metres and has done 50% more offloads than Buderus.

Quote ="EmmaMur01"You say Buderus' defence is a different class? Did you go to the match at Wakefield this season? He was incredibly poor.'" In defence? Buderus' Opta tackle stats from that game were 23 completed with 1 missed. Diskin's Opta tackle stats from that game were 19 completed with 2 missed. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=445241

Quote ="EmmaMur01"You say Buderus' defence is a different class? Did you go to the match at Wakefield this season? He was incredibly poor.'" In defence? Buderus' Opta tackle stats from that game were 23 completed with 1 missed. Diskin's Opta tackle stats from that game were 19 completed with 2 missed. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=445241

Buderus = windy h00ker

Quote ="tvoc"In defence? Buderus' Opta tackle stats from that game were 23 completed with 1 missed. Diskin's Opta tackle stats from that game were 19 completed with 2 missed. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=445241'" Were you there. Do not attempted tackles count as missed?

Quote ="tvoc"In defence? Buderus' Opta tackle stats from that game were 23 completed with 1 missed. Diskin's Opta tackle stats from that game were 19 completed with 2 missed. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=445241'" Were you there. Do not attempted tackles count as missed?

Yawn. Looks like the Tweedles have expanded into a trio for this season. Total IQ, which barely made it into double figures is still the same, just spread a bit more thinly!

Whoever supplies the water to the Batley area has a lot to answer for!

Opta stats are already being used by both sides in this discussion.

A specific game has been mentioned, I've linked to some Opta stats from that particular game.

Whether people accept what Opta report usually depends if it supports their argument .... or not.

I support both hookers equally although I'd also like to see the big bench used as Leeds have usually managed very well with the one hooker option using Webb and Sinfield for short spells during the eighty.

The thing is we've all seen Diskin in that full game role often we've yet to see Buderus given that opportunity very much. When we have Leeds won away at Harlequins (14-48 with Clarkey nearly having to walk home) and at home to Bradford (33-20) the following week.

How anyone can question Buderus's defence since he's been over here is beyond me. He's been outstanding in defence - take the WCC as an example. He wasn't bad at Wakefield either.

Maybe people expect more because he's Danny Buderus, I don't know.

I don't think we actually needed him in the first place to be fair. I'd be perfectly happy to have Diskin playing 80 minute games with people like Sinfield and JJB deputising in case of injuries/rest.

As usual with these hysterical polarised arguements, the truth lies somewhere in the middle. You won't score many points on here pointing it out but hey-ho.

Buderus has had a shocking start to the season IMO, not that Disko has been too much better. I agree that Buderus was probably in our top three players of last season up until he was injured, but this fact gets swept under the carpet as we won the grand final without him. Disko has proven that he delivers at the business end of the season, and is on his way to becoming a Leeds legend.
That does not mean that we should let probably the best hooker in this league leave just because of a slow start to the season and injury last year.

It's interesting that people are willing to give Scott Donald until the summer to get going because of the dryer tracks (and rightly so), but a top of the ground hooker, who has to pick the ball up out of the mud 4-5 times a set, and sprint off the mark for any run he intends to make, is being judged on 4 games in the sludge.
Buderus' defence in the WCC was superb, along with all our overseas players as it happens. Letting him go at this point would IMO be criminal however good Disko undoubtedly is.

Bingo.

In [ithis[/i league? Based upon what exactly?



People on here were prepared to give Donald nothing. They slated him and wanted rid. If they're prepared to give him till the summer that's very gracious of them considering the extent of his injury.

Not easy to do last year given his injury record.

1st point. Based equally on his performances last season and the overall ability that we know he has (whether he's shown it in Super League or not is debateable, but I believe that when fit last season he was one of our best players) and also I can't think of a better hooker.

Point two - People [iare[/i now willing to give Donald (and alot of players) much more of a chance after you and other people who know what they're on about castigated them for not doing so in previous seasons. This of course has proved highly successful, as most of the players that alot of people on here have deemed not good enough are now probably considered the best players the club's ever had in their respective positions. (And breathe)..

You was only born in 1988

1st point. I don't consider Buderus to be anywhere near one of the best players in Super League yet or even one of the best hookers in Super League, based upon his handful of performances in Super League.

Point 2. Thank you. I have a warm glow. You have made me feel its' all been worthwhile.

I disagree but it's all opinion so who cares. I understand that bringing the reputation with your from Oz does not mean you will be a big hit in the SL (does it Mr Mullins??), but I think Buderus has shown enough when he's been fit to show that given an extended run of games he is one of, if not the best hooker in the competition, which up until his injury last season he was, IMO. That's without mentioning the undoubted pedigree that he has.

But to bring this back to the point of the thread, to let him go without finding out how good he could be this season (and even you must admit that when fully fit, on a dry track he [icould[/i be the best hooker in the league) would be a very poor decision. Not that his form so far this season backs up my arguement at all (WCC apart), but everyone knows that you don't judge a player in the first few games of a season, don't they?

But iz E well fit?

I've not suggested we should let him go, though there IS merit in so doing, which I will come to. I've simply said it wasn't worth the gnashing of teeth and wailing that many have posted. We'd barely miss him, IMO.

Reason to let him go? As most seem to agree, whether it be Diskin or Buderus, the team looks better balanced with either of them playing much longer spells and the bench looks far better balanced without one of them on it, especially as we're now going with two running 2nd rowers on the bench.

Buderus has a much shorter shelf life (isn't his contract up this year anyway). So lets go to what worked so well with Diskin playing 60 mins a game and when he's resting let Webb, Burrow and Sinfield work out of dummy half as they have done so well before. If a 2nd hooker is needed or Diskin is injured, let's see what we have in McShane.

Also, letting him go will make TVOC happy in that it will make Leeds fit within TVOCs imaginary overseas trained quota.

Just to chip in my bit – Buderus is an expensive luxury who is here for a pension top up. I don’t think his choice of club was anything to do with career advancement or glory but one made purely on fiscal reasons. He’s all about the dollar.

But… his qualities and skills can’t be dismissed and he is an expensive luxury that we can afford so why not? He brings experience and giving him the 9 shirt has given Disko a new lease of life and his form is the best we’ve seen for some time.

I will agree that we now have an abundance of hooking talent in the squad but it wasn’t that long ago (when Diskin was injured playing for GB) we didn’t a specialist hooker in the first team.

Is it really a bad thing to have too much talent (although I still can’t figure out why Bluey has them both on the pitch at the same time)?

I doubted the value of his signing and still do. BTW someone asked when Diskin last made a clean break that led to a try, and I'm reasonably sure he actually scored from dummy half in the GF last year. In that tight a game that was a huge play.

As G1 said - and was seemingly obvious to everyone aprt from those that signed him - neither Diskin or Buderus are short-spell hookers - both prefer to play as many minuites as possible. Playing both damages the balance of the side - there would be many better bench options than either of them IMO.

Anyway, Buderus is here and I doubt Leeds would let him go as it would weaken the squad. However, one way I would consider it is if the Knights were willing to exchange Buderus for one of their younger players for a season. Although again I'm not sure what position I'd want.

well, if you believe the Australian Telegraph Newcastle are considering asking Leeds to cancel his contract so he can go back to the Knights. Apparently he isn't ecstatic with playing half games.

Can't imagine Bluey/Hetherington sanctioning that one.

It possibly is when you consider where else we could strengthen with that sort of money,

It would have been very easy to do if the coach chose to do it. He didn't until his hand was forced and to no-ones real surprise the team went undefeated for the rest of the season.

This two hooker in the seventeen crap has been proven to be unneccesary at Leeds where they have two quality eighty minute hookers to choose from, I just wish they would and it would be Buderus with first crack at it for me, leaving Diskin to concentrate on his testimonial for a bit.

That will never happen though and the team performance will suffer somewhat as a consequence with two unhappy hookers instead of one.

We could see how it would go this week if Diskin plays at 13 and Burderus 9.

You see, that's pretty much spot on for me. Buderus IS a better player than Diskin but ultimately we didn't need him. We certainly dont need the luxury of 2 out and out hookers (3 isnt it though) in the squad. IMO the cap money could have been spent better elsewhere. The options IMO were get Buderus and release Diskin, or not get Buderus at all. I'd have gone with the latter.

I still fail to understand all the adulation Buderus receives based on what he's done elsewhere.

I think I am taking up a position like the swiss on this one.

For me his technical ability for a hooker is way ahead of diskin. His passing is far more consistent and accurate, and his speed out of dummy half is much quicker.

Diskin is also a quality hooker who has been a mainstay in the side for the last 7 or 8 seasons. The team are used to his style of play, and it works. he has great defense and stamina and can play the full 80 if required.

If I had to choose to retain one of them it would be Diskin, despite the fact that I think Buderus is the better hooker.

For me the 2 hooker thing doesn't work at Leeds, certainly not with Diskin & Buderus. It also didn't work well with Duneman & Buderus from what I remember of 2005. That year we played well with Duneman as our primary hooker, with others helping out, but when Diskin got back from injury, we changed our style of play to fit both into the 17, and often ended up with too many chiefs and not enough indians out on the pitch, and the balance was wrong. I think its similar to what is happening now.

Neither Diskin or Buderus provide the impact that the likes of Roby or Higham do. They're not that type of player. I don't think eitrher of them is particularly suited to being another position unless in an emergency.

For me, its been good to have Buderus at Leeds. He's a luxury, but one we can afford. I have seen his quality albeit in flashes. Its a shame that he got injured last season at Wigan, and I hope that its not what he's remembered for. He's not been here for a holiday, sure its all about the money, but he wants to win things. Buderus broke his leg last season by committing to a ball that other players wouldn't have bothered going for. It was a shame for him, as he was playing pretty well, but it enabled us to go back to our usual style, and as a result we picked up form after droping the 2 hookers thing.

I don't want either to get injured long term, but if we did I'd argue it would make the team stronger, but not necessarily the squad.