So are seriously suggesting he dropped McDermott because he had one bad game? half the team had a bad game so why did he choose to drop McDermott and nobody else?

Care to expand on what "happened in perpignan"??

As I said before Smith was getting stick last season because of the gradual decline in standards since the middle of 2005 almost two years of pretty abject rugby - 2006 was a complete wash out don't forget - Smith was pretty fortunate to keep his job by the end of 2006 - so to say McClennan is getting treated differently is correct - the circumstances are completely different would you not agree?

Something else that begs the question - why was GH so supportive of Smith getting the England job? do you not think he had also realised Smith had reached the end of the road with this group of players?

Some will rubbish this but the form suddenly picked up as soon as Smith's departure was announced - coincidence or Smith masterplan!!!

For me look at the second half performance at Wigan - whilst they didn't win the game McClennan changed it around enough at half time turn 17-0 into 6-23 pretty impressive in my view

Because you can't drop half a team.
What makes you think it was all to do with the trip to France, once again it's all hear say.
Do you really think that Smith could be so petty?

Not on here no

Pm???????
Seriously i have no idea WTF you are on about

Agreed you can't but why drop a prop forward against the biggest pack in SL just because he along with half his colleagues had a bad game the previous week - it makes no logical sense.

Definitely - Smith is all about control - he doesn't have the man management skills so he rules by fear as soon as anyone stands upto him/steps out of line they are dealt with. Ask why Brian McDermott suddenly departed for Harlequins!!

An example of his need for control - if the players wanted to take the WAG out for dinner they had to ask Smith's permission!!

Au contraire.

Tony Smith was appointed to the GB gig on the 26th March last year, just after the Round 7 win over Harlequins.

The SL record prior to the appointment was:

WWLWLWW (1.43 points per game)

After the appointment it was:

WLWWWWLWWWLWLLWWWDLW (1.35 points per game)

To be statistically accurate you should take the 7 rounds after the announcement (same as before it). In which case the ratio is 5 wins and 2 defeats in each 7 game set.

Sorry I've been reading tvoc..........

You're probably right.

Either way, whilst I suspect David might be right and for those players in TS's good books there may well have been a rapprochement after he announced he was leaving, the claim that results improved is incorrect.

Rob - lies, damm lies and statistics - you have to compare the quality of the opposition home - who did Leeds play in the first seven games? Also compare the twenty previous games to Smith announcement to the twenty after.

The win ratio only tells half the story - for me it is about how well they play not about if they win - the best performance of last season was the defeat at Saints in the play offs.

Defeat to 8th placed Hull, only one try in a later home defeat to Hull, being kept try-less at Wigan, a home defeat to Wakefield and a home drubbing by Bradford. They all happened after the announcement of departure and don't fit any pattern of improved performance.

The points per game for Tony Smith's tenure:

2004 1.82
2005 1.57
2006 1.44
2007 1.43 (pre announcement)
2007 1.35 (post announcement)

That might give you a decent case for saying Leeds's performance got progressively worse under Tony Smith (though it would ignore external factors) but I don't think it supports any notion that the side picked up once they knew he was off.

What have you changed your mind about, that you judged Smith too harshly?

BTW, I see you had time to reply to a number of other posts after this. What's wrong, mine too searching for you?

My packing is now done.

I have changed my mind over that it is possible for professional atheletes to back off from trying to achieve peak performance in every game they play.


BTW nice piece of issue dodging my "non mind changing" friend....

With a mind as brilliant as mine why on earth would I ever want to change it?

Schoey may get jealous?

I would have thought that results both last season and this actually say something about the whole team (which is largely unchanged under Bluey). The fact is that at their BEST Leeds are capable of beating anyone. However, this team is not and never will be completely dominant. I think the record against Wigan - this year and last - speaks volumes for the fact that if the team is slightly off the boil there are a number of sides around capable of beating them.

As for G1's point, I agree entirely. Some of the stick on here for Smith was farcial in the extreme and seemed to be based on hearsay and a general 'dislike' of the guy. I couldn't give a hoot if the whole team hated him and burnt effigies of him - he still got them to win the GF twice.

How anyone can seriously STILL denigrate the coach who won two GFs on here, and yet support Bluey as though he's playing some sort of 'long-term' poker game, is to be frank, a complete fool. Get over it. Smith won two championships. Until someone else beats that record, he's the best coach Leeds have had in close to 40 years. What next, the old rubbish about how we'd have won in 2004 with DP???

FWIW I believe that Bluey has started to lose patience with some players. His comments after the defeat by Wigan sounded the most frustrated yet. He knows as well as anybody that losing a series of tight games (and lets face it the one win recently was not by the first team) is not the way to go even if we are targetting the CC. If some players expect everything to just 'click' against Sts in the semi and to take the p*ss in the meantime, I think they're deluding themselves.

Gareth makes some good points throughout this thread, so here are mine -

I have thought this for a little while now but Leeds look almost structureless, the more worrying thing for me though is that at points in a game where changes need to made Bluey doesn't do a thing.

Our start to games is shocking, I would love to know how the coaching staff deliver pre game instructions - I aint sure there are any.

Some of the positional decisions border on coaching incompetence and continuing with Ellis at Centre is ridiculous, the fact that Hall is now been exposed by this tactic further shows Blueys change averse management style.

Sinfield continues to hamper the half back combination, his lack of pace both in foot and hand speed is criminal.

Out last play options are pathetic, comes back to structure I guess.

At times we look like we miss a leader, only Senior and Burrow appeared to be delivering any kind of motivation when behind the sticks, Peacock occasionally came in but only rarely.


So the question is, is this 2005? Its a little early to say but its looking that way, the only possitive I can find is that Saints have peaked to early and we've dipped at the right time!!

Everyone should stop there moaning , we are in a dip of form and are still nearly winning games. Looked as though we turned a corner against wigan in the second half, started supporting and off loading more. Bluey has won the WCC has taken us to joint top of the league and a CC Cup Semi. I remember when Leeds fans would have killed for this , the reason he should not got any stick is that he clearly doesn',t deserve it. Get a grip all you moaners we could be Hull and then life would be .

Luckily for you there's nothing in the AUP to stop a poster contributing to a thread they clearly don't understand.

I don't think the thread is about giving Mc Clennan stick.
It is posing the question why did Smith get so much stick for a similar run of results last season?

The cult of personality. Smith projects a degree of unease in front of the media thereby losing rapport with the Leeds fans.

Bluey comes across pretty well earning our fans undying love

Just nuts eh?

There were some encouraging comments from McClennan regarding there being too much "lateral" movement from Leeds in the closing stages when a more direct approach was required. This problem predates McClennan's tenure, btw.

Your initial point was why such leeway for bluey? - My answer was that we can still win every competition this year and untill that changes why should he get stick.

An ability that protected Graham Murray very well late in his tenure.