I really don’t think we have a style of play. Because we have an extremely lightweight pack we are unable to achieve mid field dominance. So we swing the ball out wide and hope for the best. Sadly it’s only been successful on two occasions this season, first half against saints at home, then second half away at Leigh. Mistakes on the field? Most of them are down to players who simply aren’t good enough, highlighted by the fact they produce the same mistakes on a regular basis. Looking at Roberts last week at Saints, his whole body position in going to field a high ball was wrong.
End result he dropped it. Once watched a rhinos training session, for 15 minutes Brent Webb was peppered with high balls by the reserves and youth lads. Suffice to say ,extremely rare to see Webb drop a high ball. Have a look at the points for on the league table, ours are a complete disaster.
Unfortunately I don’t possess a crystal ball ,but I would imagine we will finish around about fifth or sixth place. For me that would be an abject failure, looking at some recent postings on here , it seems some people would find that acceptable.

Regardless, the next few weeks are enormous for Smith (assuming he lasts this week!). If we lose to Cas I'd say there's no coming back from that, and there's only downside in all the games to Wire. Lose any of them before then and the pitchforks will be out, win them and he'll barely nudge the dial because only Leigh are even half decent. In some ways he'd be better with games against teams just above us for the next few games.

Agree with that but the notion that if Leeds don't finish top 4 is abject failure is based on flawed assumptions. In theory, 100% Leeds should be challenging for silverware every year of course. In practice we have no divine right and this squad and likely the coach too isn't working to the right standard. Problem is you can't assume your better players will hang around forever in an over-pressurised environment like Leeds. For me 2025 is the crucible year, where I would totally say that a finish outside the top 4 is not acceptable. For 2024 a play-offs spot would be good enough for me, yes.

I agree with Jim that most of the errors are not directly about any style the team are being asked to play. We are making these consistently through games, including spells when the pressure is off. Of course when we have been under the pump for extended periods of time the incidence of errors and penalties increases.

Re: the forwards, they need to step up collectively. Individually few have done much of merit this season. Oledski needs to be more aggressive, run hard more often, and not simply look to go to ground quickly to win a quick PTB on every tackle.

Lisone might be a Matt Adamson style fans favourite but he's the first one that I would show the door to. His discipline is atrocious for a player who spends so little time on the field. We are not getting value for our quota spot here. His 5 minute cameos might work against poorer sides but he lacks the size and impact to be a competition leading player. He might be worth it if the rest of the forwards are laying some sort of platform but that's not happening.

McDonnell was a strong player last season but he seems to have faded a lot. Reading Redvee (I know!), they seem to regard him as a bit of a grub and can't understand why Leeds put so much stock in him. I don't agree with all of that, but he does seem to be really struggling this season. Cameron Smith is another who looks really out of sorts. Goudemand looks pretty anonymous. Might as well give Donaldson another run out...

Agree - with McDonnell the problem is, like with Holroyd, they both do a ton of work in D which gasses them. They're having to do this work because players around them aren't - I just think it makes both players look worse than they actually are. Both would look way better playing with 2 really high quality forwards to take some pressure off.

Lisone is devastating on his day, but for an experienced player he doesn't control it well enough. Giving away penalties when you're in possession is mindless. Again, he only works well in a team that is already dominant, and he can come in and twist the knife. He doesn't have the control to work well in a team under pressure.

We'r a terribly coached team, we have no structure and no plan, obvious to anyone with eyes

Our talent ID is also appalling, what kind of team are we, its Smiths team now, thats last seasons excuses out the way, so what does a Smith team look like:

Are we a Big team?
Are we a Quick team?
Are we a fit team?
Are we an intelligent team?
Are we a resilient team?

The answers no to all, we have no playing identity that translates to successful RL.

He will leave us, hopefully soon, in as bad a mess as he found us

Ive said it before, he wont be going until the end of the season unless he quits (which he wont)

We cant be relegated so there's no onus on the hierarchy to get rid until then.

Best you might see is an announcement that hes off home at end of season / got a new exciting opportunity back home / family issue and thats it if we get pumped in next few games.

Fir smith to say we're still a new side and for anyone to give him mitigation for our current plight, look at Rowley and what he's had to face with his star players been sold having to pull a team together in the off season. Smith has an embarrassment of resources compared to Salford yet they still continue to overachieve.

I see your Rowley and I'll raise you a Sam Burgess.

Now Im not saying that Wire will go on to win any pots but hes taken a misfiring, spice boys joke of a team and in one preseason moulded them into a very solid, taught team. Their defence is spot on, their attack is crisp and they really look like they are finally moving in the right direction.

1 off season and were what? 2 years in on Rohans Revolution and we still cant string results or performances together?

If Leeds had signed San Burgess as head coach this forum would have gone into meltdown



I think they've been pretty smart in pairing him with Martin Gleeson to be honest, he does the technical coaching and Burgess the motivation/man management.

Pretty sure Richard Marshall is there too. I remember saying at the time Burgess will go well with support around him. That’s what they’ve done.

I think more significant than Marshall is Martin Gleeson. He's been in the England RU set up (shows how respected he is), and was assistant at Salford through their period of success in CC and GF. Great attack coach, who we should have picked up.

He is responsible for the mistakes , if i have 17 blokes working under me who i wanted and they kept messing up , i do not think i woud last long in a job

The most accurate post on this thread

They also have probably the best half in the competition in George Williams, they hardly have a bad roster.. our England reps are Newman who is rocks and diamonds at Leeds, and possibly Mik who is again pretty much carrying the Leeds pack like the bad old days.

Signing Croft was a step in the right direction but we are still playing catch-up. I'd prefer it if we tried to play overtake.

Not as bad a mess as he found us I don't think. You know better than anyone where the youth is at today compared to years gone by. For various reasons (mostly size), Mustapha, Broadbent, Edwards, Sutcliffe, McConnell, Field and a few others didn't work out. We had a long time in the wilderness.

I do believe that Lumb, N McCormack, Edgell, Smith, Simpson, Brown, White, Cassell, Lloyd, Stelfox and some others are real chances. There are some talented lads with pace and/or size. Still a couple of years off putting a real stamp on first grade but I'm much happier about the future than I have been for a long time.

There are only enough real quality domestic players for maybe the top 4/5 clubs in SL, and gone are the days where clubs can afford genuinely first grade NRL players. The risks are huge bringing NRL players across now, they're either chronically injured, have major attitude issues, or are unproven. Nobody who can make first grade in NRL is going to choose SL in the current climate - or very few.

So Leeds have to continue to work on the youth development and actually do better there than we have before, against a backdrop of declining participation. Most importantly, we have to be better at this work than our competitors are.

Having said that we are going to need to use any quota spots very well for 2025 if we're going to plug the obvious holes in the side and mount a serious challenge. I'm actually more bothered about the squad quality and balance than I am the coach - it does take both to be successful but I don't believe our squad is good enough still regardless of who's coaching.

This is another reason I think we need to recruit from the NRL for a coach if we do replace Smith: someone with contacts and who is well thought of over there is worth its weight in gold when it comes to attracting the type of talent Leeds needs to break into the big time again.

Jim, Smith has had minimul, if any, involvment with the ID/ recruitment of any of those young players you mention

I get what your saying in regards not leaving us in as bad a state because we have the youth in the system, but the reality is, they would be in the system regardless of Smith.

What we know, is that the current first team is Smiths squad, nearly every one of them has been signed, or re-signed under his watch, so what does a Smith team look like?

We'r not particularly big
We'r not particularly fast
We'r not particularly fit
We'r certainly not intelligent
We'r not particularly resilient

Leeds arnt the only team facing the recruitment challenges you list, all S/L teams are in the same boat, if anything we have advantages over nearly everyone else, but other clubs get it right much more often than we do

I think the current squad has enough fast players (Miller, Handley, Newman, Croft etc)

Fitness, intelligence and resilience have been there if the current first team have struggled to show these things in the last couple of games.

Size is definitely a missing ingredient, especially in association with the other traits mentioned.

Right now we the team needs a) a fresh infusion of confidence as individuals and in teammates, b) whatever it takes to stop all these individual errors, and c) a few extra bodies back in critical positions.

Then we can start talking about buzzwords like identity and DNA. Right now their collective identity is shot to pieces.

when club mouthpiece peter smith starts writing about rifts between coach and players, and players obviously aren't playing for him you know he's a dead man walking.

Missed this is there a link or did you actually mean when?

I've actually got a weird feeling that because the presser hasn't happened yet (I'm led to believe it will happen today) that Smith may actually say he's leaving/standing down before or immediately after the Cas game.

I’m not sure you’re right here. I think we are one of the slower teams overall in the league, and I’d only rate two out of the four above as quantifiably “fast”. We are guessing with both Newman and Miller because we haven’t really seen either in a true foot race this season. I think Harry has slowed down and has a different running style due to all the injuries he’s had, I’m not sure he can burn people with sheer pace like he used to. As for Miller, he’s elusive, but if his broken field running is as fast as it was against London Broncos I certainly wouldn’t quantify him as fast. If I recall he looked like like the 52 year old dad at The School Parents Race Day as he passed the ball to Handley before he collapsed

Miller's 'speed' is explosive rather than say Handley who is fast over long distances.