We were well beaten by a far superior side, no question about that.

To my mind, the differences between the two teams were sat in th stands. We missed McGuire but, more importantly, they have a coach who can organise a defence and form a game plan. We missed tackles, mis read plays, dropped the ball through panic play, gave away cheap penalties and lacked offensive structure. How many times did we move the ball to the fringes for there to be only one or two of our players facing three markers or drop the ball within their twenty?

Why did we persist in kicking to Monaghan's wing when Chris Riley had dropped more ball than one armed Frenchman the previous week? I appreciate that Ryan is good in the air but, BJB ain't exactly shabby.

Why is that Watkins, who is clearly lacking some defensive coaching, never receives any quality ball and the attack is set up in such a way that he never will?

Forget the players, in my opinion, they are good enough to have come a lot closer or to have won that game. They need to be better coached.

Oh, I was just talking about the cheap players. Clearly Moz, Briers, both Monaghans, Waterhouse, Atkins, Carvell, Myler and Westwood and being paid millions in brown envelopes

so why does one one of your big name players boast about his payment?
indeed his family seem happy to tell people about it

Who is the player

pm sent

It looked to me like a well-coached team against a badly coached one. Tvoc elsewhere talked about lack of structure, and it was glaringly obvious that we have almost none. No plan to stop opponents making massive yards up the middle (multiple men into the tackle and controlling it anyone?), and seemingly no idea how to cope with dummy runners near the line. No plan on attack within the opposition half at all. That's down to the coaching.

As for the players, well we now have a really good set of outside backs, but they look flat because we have the most ordinary pack imaginable. There's not a single forward that worries opponents and forces them to commit numbers to the tackle close to the opposition line through sheer physical presence, nobody with an offloading game worth mentioning, and none of our 'hardworking' forwards do much work off the ball at all. McGuire's ability to get the ball wide through his speed was missed, and Leeds didn't adjust to his absence.

The paucity of the side is probably spelled out on the bench. Nothing there at all. Instead of an Ali we had a hardworking prop, a big lad who seems very Chris Feather, an OK hooker and perhaps most bizarre of all is seemingly actually PLANNING to move one of your threequarters. Dumb doesn't even come close to what a waste of a bench spot that is. Nothing against Keinhorst - putting him in that position was plain stupid.

In the end people can talk about being brave all they want. We were hammered in the second half (23-8 with our points coming late) - very much what you'd expect to happen on the scoreboard when a better team gets on top of a poorer one.

No doubt people will expect a miracle comeback in the playoffs, but that Wire team was massively superior to us. I'll be stunned if we get near the Grand Final again this year.

One thing you learn pretty quickly on here, is that 99% of what you read, regarding player's salaries and things they are supposed to have said and done, is complete bull.

Until proved otherwise, I would go along with the reality that Wire do things within the laws of the game.....To suggest otherwise just makes people look very bitter and jealous....

thats a great most. sadly reaching wembley will keep BM in the job for another year.
i honestly expect nothing more than mediocrity next season

They will get near the Grand Final again. And by that, I mean an elimination semi final at the very least which is one game away from a Grand Final. Which teams are going to stop them? Hull? Huddersfield? Bradford? Catalan? Wakefield? Hull KR?

Catalan away isn't the gimme fixture you're making it out to be if they end up 4th and we're 5th

A couple of big calls went our way.
I thought the right call was made re the Hodgeson hit.
The Briers knock on should have been given, but there were more serious issues with the way Leeds played.
It seems to me that you've only 1 kicker - Sinfield - and he's he's put under pressure then there's no alternative.
We've got Monas, Hodgeson and even Ratchford.
That to me is one of the biggest issues in your team.

I'm not sure what tactics I'd have played if I was McDermott.
TS has got a squad with real strength in depth and he's shown time and again he can get the tactics right.
This time he targetted your youngsters on the Watkins side after a lot of biff and bash in the forwards.

I actually thought there was little in it in the first half and that you more than held your own although the threat in attack was not as decisive as ours.

I remember losing to Wigan in the 90's final and it was horrible, so in all honesty you do have my sympathy.
I really feel for Sinfield.

I thought the Briers obstruction was rightly penalised, but i also believe that it happens week in week out in super league and is considered by eddie and stevo as clever play, shielding your winger.

Not sure of the Play-Off etiquette but isn't one game away from a Grand Final known as the Qualifying Semi Final these days under the present hopeless format?

Don't think we've had an Elimination Semi Final since 2008.

I'd fancy Leeds to beat them when it really counts. They got close last week with one of their usual abject tossing it off regular round performances. Catalan are not genuine contenders and neither are any of the other rabble teams I mentioned earlier.

The facts are, no matter how ordinary Leeds are, no matter how weak their pack is, no matter how structurally inept they are in defence and dealing with dummy runners, they remain almost guaranteed of reaching the semi final of the SL play-offs. The same applies to the CC unless they ever get an unlucky early round draw - they will reach the semi finals of that competition, bare minimum.

Since the overall competition is poor, even this current Leeds squad remain only one single good performance away from reaching a Grand Final or a Challenge Cup Final. That's all it takes.

I think you are being over generous to Leeds there. We'll have to play very well to beat them in France. I'd be very confident at Headingley, which makes me think 4th might be a better option than 5th this year.

Quite possibly.

It's all very confusing newspeak... the kind of which Orwell would be proud of.

Perhaps they are just plain, no-nonsense semi finals these days, the week before the Grand Final?

Think I preferred major and minor semi finals and finals

Didn't the ARL use to have finals rather than play-offs? Always confused me those.

__________

Les Catalans have had three home fixtures in the Play-Offs beating Warrington (46-icon_cool.gif and Hull KR (56-6) with ease but also coming unstuck against Wigan (26-50) The one constant there is that it's never been much of a contest.

Leeds have yet to visit Les Catalans in the SL Play-Offs (or Challenge Cup) but they have a Won 3, Lost 4 record in the Regular Rounds, sequence W, =#FF0000L, W, =#FF0000L, W, =#FF0000L, =#FF0000L

So coach McDermott has yet to win there with Leeds although he did win there at least twice with the Harlequins.

Hardly a fair comparison. Leeds have to travel - it was a local derby for Quins

From memory, the ARL Top 5 play-off system which we used for several seasons from 1998 to 2001 (I think, though not entirely sure)...

[uWeek 1[/u:
1st BYE
2nd V 3rd (Qualification Final - Winner to meet 1st in Week 2)
4th V 5th (Elimination Final - Winner to meet loser of 2nd and 3rd above, Loser eliminated)

[uWeek 2[/u:
1st V Winner of Qualification Final (Major Semi Final - Winner through to Grand Final)
Loser of Qualification Final V Winner of Elimination Final - (Minor Semi Final - Loser eliminated)

[uWeek 3[/u:
Winner of Major Semi Final BYE
Losers of Major Semi Final V Winners of Minor Semi Final (Known as the Preliminary Final OR Minor Final - Loser Eliminated)

[uWeek 4[/u:
Winner of Major Semi Final V Winner of Preliminary or Minor Final (Grand Final)

I like this system.

Each postion is a clear advantage over the one below it. I didn't particularly like the move to a top 6 and really don't like the top 8 system.

Winning from 5th in the old system would have much harder than we found it last year.

The only slight issue I had with the old top 5 format was whether finishing third was preferable in reality to finishing lower. Away to the team finishing second in week one (QPO) but with a safety net firmly tucked away in the back pocket for the following week (ESF) if defeated. It appeared to catch out Halifax in '98 and Leeds in '99 to some extent but there again if you lose at home in a sudden death play-off game you deserve to be done for the year.

I think it is - the chance to play against a team one place above you which if won would earn you the chance to have a bye or a second chance to me is a massive advantage to going into sudden death rugby.

My concern would be the first place team who could potentially only play once in effectively 4 weeks before the Grand Final while other teams built a bit of momentum

1998 - Bradford - Week 1 exit (EPO)

1999 - Castleford - Week 3 exit (FE)

2000 - Castleford - Week 1 exit (EPO)

2001 - Leeds - Week 1 exit (EPO)



Perhaps in theory but did it pass the reality test?

1998 - Halifax - Week 2 exit (ESF)

1999 - Leeds - Week 2 exit (ESF)

2000 - Bradford - Week 3 exit (FE)

2001 - Hull - Week 2 exit (ESF)

Remembering the team finishing the Regular Rounds in 3rd were guaranteed to reach a minimum of week 2 that's not a great record at reaching their top 3 seeding in the Play-Offs.



That can cut both ways. Rest V being battle hardened. The losing club will usually point out how they were disadvantaged by their journey to the final regardless of route they had followed.

Wow have just come back from the pub having drank several pints of Sam smiths fine ales and seen all these configurations.
It's all a bit complicated for me, might have to go back to the pub to clear my mind.

There's some poor teams in there!

I still can't believe we lost than game to Cas either - it probably won Vowles the Man of Steel award as well, which when viewed as a best player award was a travesty.