Handley looked a different player tonight. He looked a bit of a handful.

briscoe knocked on in goal

Just a quick question guys, how many 1st teamers missing for Leeds tonight? Recorded game and just about to watch it but had a read of their forum and got impression they should have won with such a plethora of talent missing for them and little mention of any Leeds injuries?

Sutcliffe, Ward, Cuthbertson, Ferris, Peteru, Dwyer

Why name him then when Olejdski could have done a couple of 10 minute stints in the pack?

What you would see on a tv and what you would see at a game are totally contrasting views. On the tv you will see a player popping up all over with effort, and looking like doing tackling. Actually at the game you would see a player in cloud cuckoo land, leaving gaps all over, his back to play, slow getting in line, and having absolutely no idea where he was supposed to be. Fans shouting all over ground with hands on head. An absolute terrible player, who shouldn’t be anywhere near professional standard in this game.

I hope you never have to see him live. Because frustrating is a massive understatement. We must have at least 10 players behind him who would do a 100% better job than him.

I disagree and I was at the game.. He put a great defensive shift in and actually filled a few gaps at times when we were stretched. Ball in hand he had little effect last night but in defence he contributed.

What I saw on TV was our second highest tackler with 38 who was our top marker tackler, showing he made a lot of first tackles many of them low down round the legs bring the attacker down. Yes on occasions he was slower getting back in the line but this often happens to players who make a lot of tackles on the trot. Not bad for a player off the bench I say.

So my comment was accurate and valid, and I say your comments are inaccurate and biased and suggest you watch the TV video which provides a closer view of the big effective effort he put in last night and I gather a similar one at Widnes. Why did you choose Walters to have a go at when Ormondroyd only made 9 tackles with 4 misses leading to at least one of their tries?

That said he is just a fringe squad player but so far this season he has done all that has been asked of him and my guess is the coach will be pleased.

You say there are are least 10 players behind him who would do a better job. On his form this season please could you name your "10 players at least who could do a better job" who would come off the bench and be 2nd best tackler with 38!

So this difference of opinion is nothing to do with watching Live or on TV unless of course the action is too far away for you to see. Perhaps you need a visit to Specsavers!

I think the level of grief aimed at Walters is pretty disgusting to be honest. Whilst he's not the greatest, and clearly he's a bit part squad player, when he does get the chance, he is all effort - what more can you ask for?
Yes he's of limited ability compared to the better Super League players, but he's certainly better than many give him credit for. When you consider the amount of money he'll be earning (he'll easily be one of the lowest paid players in SL), he comes in and does a job when asked to do so. What do people expect, that he'll resign and say 'nah I'm not gonna play this week Brian because I think there are better players out there'.
The criticism is well over the top and smells like a personal vendetta.

On a more positive note, Myler was terrific. I mentioned it a few weeks ago after the Storm game, his defence is brilliant - he makes good reads and really puts his body into a tackle. He's also taking the ball right to the line to create space and isn't afraid to take a pressure releaving hit up - a sign of a good team player and a great trait to have. I'm impressed so far.

That is quite a ridiculous post, and one that smacks of arrogance. Not worth agruging with. But I can say with confidince your view is pointless, since as usual it is formed with no idea of how a game pans out other than TV views.

If you read my post again, I actually said from the tv you would see a player popping up all over, and in the tackle. We have not disagreed here. What you have absolutely no idea of is the rest of what was said, and when OPTA start producing those more important stats, then you would have something to argue.

The comments made to the rest of the squad at the top of the Carnegie last night about him are more reflective of his performance, and the faces of those fellow squad members in response showed their opinion too.

Forget numbers of tackles and how did he put a great defensive shift in? It was so easy to work out how to beat him, and Hull were doing it continually late in the game. You simply shift the ball one side, and bring it back quick, and have that player run where Walters should be, and the gap is there continuosly. Another five minutes and Hull had that game, and it was because of that very problem.

Walters chases the ball, he has effort, but he has no idea of shape and where he should be. He is absolutely clueless. One minute he is in the second row position, then prop, then centre, then marker. He has had long enough to learn that part of the game. Junior rugby players know this. There was two efforts in the second half where he was actully going to go into Hull's line, not knowing where the hell he was.

I presume you are talking about Walters!!
If he is the best of our fringe players God help us. He's runs around like a headless chicken, no part to play in a structured defence. He's had chances out on loan but no one else seems to want him, get rid now.

Walters worked hard in defence but he did look like he was struggling to keep up at times - both in terms of his mobility and positioning.

Credit to him though, at one point he was the only player to stop a Hull player breaking through when the Leeds cover defence was stretched. Probably saved us a try there.

Give over he wasn't just popping up all over he put in 38 tackles many of them first in and to only have JJB (44 tackles) ahead of him is to his great credit especially as he came off the bench and his time was limited. Many of his tackles were consecutive so of course he was moving sideways.

I agree he is not near being a first choice player on all round ability but you have to give credit when it is due. You have an agenda with this player and I bet it is awful sitting anywhere near you in the stands

If you were watching on tv then you should have noticed the gaps he left & how he "chased the ball" on many occasions leaving gaps.
Now whilst i agree the lad put a shift in to make out he's some sort of tackling machine is way wide of the mark even with your spread-sheet Coaching manual.
Opta don't list the number of times he was bumped off when fist in a tackle nor the gaps he left when chasing the ball.
He wasn't the only one i thought Mullally was off with his impact aswell.

So did Ormondroyd for one certain try, but he is critisized also.

He is terrible. One of the worst players i have ever seen pull on leeds shirt. The fact he is still doing so after several years baffles me, he should not be blocking any young lads path the first team.

That's all my opinion, if yours is different i respect that. I have only seen similar sentiments really on here with a few jokey asides. As i have said before, he will always be fondly remembered for the 2015 try but he is a very lucky lad to still be at the club nearly 3 years on.

He was actually chasing the man with the ball and on 38 occasions made the tackle. He only came on in the first half after 28 minutes and was not on for the whole of the second half so when he was not tackling it did not leave much time for these "many occasions when he left gaps" or "was bumped off when first in a tackle"so you are exaggerating. P

Perhaps you showed watch the TV video and you will see the good work he did which perhaps you did not spot live. While you are doing that you can quantify all these many occasions that he was bumped off and left all these gaps?

I never said he was a tackling machine. What I pointed out was the important role he played in our defence last night to counter the OTT opinion coming fro Gotcha

I am sure you will be pleased that Owen Farrell is captain of England tomorrow. Something I know you predicted or not?

I think it says it all about the attitude of some folk that after a game when we got a decent win, with a depleted team, that the focus is on hammering a bit part squad player (who put in a shift).
The things being said about him are true, he does over chase, and he's often guilty of trying to solve a problem himself, or smash someone when holding structure would be better - but he's not a first drawer player - he's a squad filler who gives his all when given the chance.
McDermott is obviously happy enough to throw him in, and he's obviously doing the job expected of him.
Something worth recognising is that as people have pointed out, he's not the most naturally talented or gifted, he's not got the best skills, and doesn't necessarily read the game brilliantly, but he's a grand final winner and regularly part of our match day squad, despite these failings- he's obviously got to where he is through hard work and determination. How about giving him credit for that and accepting he's going to make mistakes, but he also puts a shift in and McDermott obviously feels he can rely on him.

He was criticised for only making 6 tackles with 4 missed tackles one of which led to a try.

But I guess you think that is ok as he didn't "follow the ball" and so much better than making 38 tackles.

Sorry but I don't agree with this. You accept his failings are true, but believe because of his attitude, and that you consider him a bit part player that it is acceptable. Well I personally don't. I accept his enthusiasm, and his work rate, but I can clearly see the liability he is to his team mates also. The point is, he is never going to be anything more than that bit part player you say, but we have plenty of other promising players in the wings who one day, given the same opportunities potentially will be excellent players. We should be using those players to test the water, before lowering the standards to someone clearly not good enough. If that sounds harsh, so be it, and I do accept the effort as I sadi, but just because they put cheap labour in at the club I personally don't think that warrants a shirt.

Spot on.

Although compare to last year, the 4th league game was THAT hammering vs Cas so if the main gripe after the 4th league game this year is bit part player then things can't be too bad at the club.

What do people expect from someone who is probably our 7th choice second rower, in a salary capped sport? Wind it in please, whilst he might never be anything other than average, he's prepared to put his body on the line for the club and I'll go with that.

Absolutely!

Why on earth he's getting so much grief is beyond me.

Because moaning old wallopers need a scapegoat and JW fits the bill. It's called the "Kirke Effect"