That isn't what the man said is it? His basic point is that there is no excuse for a lack of structure in defence and attack. He is quite right about that and the fact that Leeds have displayed a complete lack of set pattern play this season (arguably under McD full stop).

The injuries are a bona fide excuse for losing some games but, at this level, no way can they be used to justify a complete lack of organisation.

Castleford beat Salford with at least 10 players out including both half backs and their captain. If it wasn't for the points deduction Salford would be well above Huddersfield so Cas beat a better side with as many injured players as Leeds!!

I think its you that needs to get in real world.

I'm talking about 10 players who would have actually played. Hardaker, Briscoe, Moon, Hall, McGuire, Falloon, Cuthbertson, Ablett, Ward, Delaney.

And we only lost by 8. Again, get in the real world.

So you'll happily make a case for moving players on but defend the Coach in every argument??
Also re-Sinny/JP didn't you say Mc overstated their influence & that it showed good man management despite the Coach saying differently?
How many rookies have we actually bloodied this year btw?
As for injuries not effecting performances it will to a certain extent but lets get this clear the team available should be playing better & at the very least be better organised/motivated & a much better structure especially defensively than has been shown.
Also don't overlook selecting injured players or not utilising the full 17 that is clearly a problem when we are fatigued & spending plenty of time defending on the back foot.
Lets not forget either you'll happily label Watkins lazy etc but again not a bad word against the Bloke who picks Delaney on 1 leg or waits till someone can hardly walk before making a sub?
You claim to be looking at the bigger picture but change it to suit yer unwavering love for the Coach.
All things considered this Team/Club should not be bottom of the SL out of the CC & still below an average Salford team docked 6pts that's not good enough.
Thats not expecting to win every game or Trophy thats the facts as they stand & funalky whilst yer no doubt gonna slate individuals rather than the precious Coach ask yourself WHY aren't they responding to him or his "structures" or game plans? Indeed why are we still conceding tries in the same areas of the pitch irrespective of the opponents?

Hall has been out of form for a long time in fact Handley has been an improvement Falloon has been woeful Ward hasn't played since August & when was the last time Delaney was fit & actually completed a game?
Yer overstating it lad you get in the real world key players are injured in a lot of teams.

Overstating it? 8 of the 10 injured players I named all played in the Grand Final. Plus Ward who would have started the GF but for injury, plus Falloon who is our only recognised hooker.

8 grand final winners missing, but I'm overstating it? Join the real world any time you like, Son.

Absolutely you are - you are suggesting every injured player would be an improvement and would actually get selected.

That is simply not the case. Is Falloon actually injured or not deemed good enough by the coach? As has been stated one winger yes but not both neither were playing as well as Handley is now. If Ward and Ablett are fit Delaney doesn't play.

So yes you are overstating the impact of injuries - the next time Leeds have a prop playing stand off as Cas had on Saturday then you can say have had it worse than other sides - that is real world son!!

Ward didnt play in the GF though simple as ,Burrow is our recognised 9 either on his own or when P/T another is selected .
Again yer overlooking form Handley is easily the form winger so that offsets the loss of Hall ,Delaney is rarely fit so again its something the team/squad are used to.
Real world? Yer in cloud cuckoo land if you believe its all down to injuries

Squad for Thursday:

1. Zak Hardaker
3. Kallum Watkins
6. Danny McGuire
7. Rob Burrow
8. Keith Galloway
10. Adam Cuthbertson
11. Jamie Jones-Buchanan
14. Liam Sutcliffe
16. Brad Singleton
17. Mitch Garbutt
18. Jimmy Keinhorst
19. Mitch Achurch
20. Anthony Mullally
21. Josh Walters
22. Ash Handley
23. Ashton Golding
25. Jordan Lilley
26. Brett Ferres
29. Luke Briscoe

What will this be, 4th time lucky for McGuire if he actually plays?

Looks that way. Not really sure what Baldwinson has to do to get a game. Achurch keeps his place.

Having McGuire back should be a huge boost to the team - let's hope he is f

I certainly will against your arguments which are the same ones and the same conclusions your have used for the last 4/5 years. When anything goes wrong you only have one solution ie: sack the coach which history has shown to be wrong.



No I said that you overstated their influence. Again you make 2 + 2 = 5. A generous comment from the coach and you totally misunderstand it and jump to the wrong conclusion.



How many were ready?



For you to believe that ongoing injuries to more than half the first team selections and for more than half the season only "to a certain extent" effect performance shows how unrealistic are your arguments. How many of the squad have to be injured before you can accept that performances will be seriously affected to a large extent?

You were one of those that did not see the need to replace the key role that Sinfield supplied. Your judgement was wrong in failing to spot that Sutcliffe was not equipped to take on these key responsibilities because his skills are not best suited to a pivotal stand off position. Did you not realise that our chances of success would be hit hard if McGuire were to be injured and if so why do you not understand the significance of this when indeed he was injured in the first match and has missed half a season?

I agree the under strength team should have played better but where I disagree with you is in your constant blaming the coach for what is obviously player mistakes. How is the coach to blame for the likes of Watkins, Sutcliffe, Hardaker and Hall making so many handling errors that have cost us wins? Why is it the coaches fault when Ablett leaves a gap inside him? Is it because he hasn't got JP or Sinny telling what to do The players have shown that they can play well to Mac's defensive structures so when they don't and make mistakes why does this become his fault when he has not enough fit players to pick a alternative side?



You are happy to pass judgement without knowledge. It has been said by the coach that the rules say he has to name the 19 at a certain time each week but that when this time is reached for much of this season he has had to name players in the 19 that were not fit and that he knew would not play. Does this not tell you the serious state of the injuries and that some named on the bench are also not fit.



What I can see with my own eyes is certain players under-performing to an alarming degree. eg Watkins. What I cannot see with my own eyes is the coaches not performing at training or game plan meetings or in failing to motivate or practice structure and neither can you! So unlike you I will not pass judgement on assumptions particularly regarding someone's job.

Delaney has on on going strain that comes and goes and with injections means he can play given the fitness guy's approval.



My comments and opinion have been consistent as have yours in your agenda against the coach.



I agree they should not be bottom. But happens in life and in sport. I have been a supporter of Leeds since the late 50's and have seen many ups and downs and I can cope with it without panicking 'Calm down dear its only sport'



You do not state many facts apart from the bleeding obvious it's your judgement I have a problem with. May I ask you why you are not blaming the players sufficiently for their own errors?

Again yer going way ott i havent said sack the Coach for the last 4/5 years.
Who says it was a generous comment i misinderstood? You your opinion not fact yet he used it many times see his interviews after semi finals ,finals big play off games id say its pretty clear it was more than a generous comment.
Back to replacing Sinfied i backed Sutty to play 6 not once will you find where i said he'd also replace his leadership or game management & as pointed out elsewhere yer 6 isnt always yer teams "go to" man so thats covered that BS yer spreading.
Have i just blamed the Coach individually? No i havent so again nowt like over egging yer point is there?
I do blame GH for poor recruitment but you also exonerate the Coach if any influence yet you inly have to look at the departures of Amor Cross etc to see he does have some say in how the squad is made up.
I also blame the players you say yer judging them by whats happening on the pitch yet not the Coach?
Are you seeing him everyday setting up structures etc that the players can/will follow?
The Delaney stuff is simple read his interview players will 99.9% put their hands up thats where a Coach has to get a grip but we know your hero has clear form here again though blameless in your eyes its not a GF every week if we need to get a loan in or use a raw jnr do it for the long term good.
I aren't panicking either far from it as for stating the bleeding obvious you overlook the bleeding obvious where the Coach is concerned mate i.e selecting injured players ,same mistakes week in week out & his squad rotation during games.
You say you've watched RL for over 50yrs & have a problem with my judgement when have you seen using 16 players , leaving injured/fatigued players on the park & selecting blatantly injured players consistently win games?
Hopefully we turn it around & finish the season strong ready to re-group in 2017 personally i dont think we will & whilst i think its obvious we need some quality playing recruitment i think its also time for fresh voices/ideas off it i make no apology for that either because whatever hours structures & ideas the current set up have & are putting in its not working either.
Finally i agree sh#@ happens it doesn't mean though we should just accept it without ? Or wanting better.

I think some Mcdermott defenders on here are confusing people wanting change and probably feeling that the club could do with change long term, with this being knee jerk spoilt fan reaction.

Only speaking for myself now but i just feel that now would be a good time to put a new regime in place for 2017 and beyond.Mac has had a real roller coaster 6 years in charge in which nobody can deny he has done a fine job overall, won everything and i thank him for a job well done.But it just feels like the end of the road is coming for him anyway to me, i get the give him time to sort it, he has earned it view, but i just don't see him getting a tune out of this squad for the next 2/3 more years, so what is the point in lurching into next year and then pulling the trigger mid way through 2017 with crowds on the slide and everything else that comes with a decline? it could set us back years. We will see, it is just my view no hysterical 'Just Sack Mac' campaign

Agree BT.

Like with most things, the tightest of tight Yorkshiremen Mr GH has squeezed as much out of his coaching appointment as he can. The sponge is dry now, time for the piggy bank to open up and make a purchase.

This Thursdays SKY TV game is a massive one for the Rhinos IMO and one that they surely have to win

This game could almost be a season defining game for them as they certainly can't afford to lose too many more games and especially at home, before they will ultimately end up in the middle 8's

IMO that is due to the lesser lights of previous season amassing win's from each other and actually stacking winning points on the ladder when they weren't expected to against the more fancied sides

The Rhinos have the ability to make the safety zone of the top 8's IF they string some wins together and gain some much needed confidence, But something inside me thinks that there's something not quite right over there in their camp this season and that if they actually lose this week's game against the Tigers then they may have to go through the procedure of actually having to secure their Super League status for 2017 by winning a play off series containing the top 4 from the Championship along with the other lowest ranked Super League sides

Who would have thought that this was a possible outcome prior to the season, especially after winning the treble in 2015?

Are you really him? I can hear his voice saying this. Or a Sky script writer? ( I presume Eddie and steve don't need scripts). Don't think many thought it possible including you tipping us to win it again !

Well you have campaigned to have him replaced with a new head coach most years - so do you think McDermott has the right skill set to be moved upstairs then? and would you still blame him in the future for player errors?



My opinion is that McDermott has been the coach, team selector, game planner and motivator with help from his assistant coach and senior players as is the norm in sport and it was this team together that produced so much silverware for the club and supporters. As part of your agenda you tried to belittle his influence and achievements in our success last year.



That's true. But where were your calls for a new game manager and which position would he play if not at stand off? IMO Sutty never showed he had the skill set needed for a 6 and unfortunately has shown this year that he is not really comfortable at 6 particularly in a struggling side. I think he is a very useful utility player but not a regular 6 and it was very wrong not to recruit a play maker halfback.



Your main target for blame was and is always the coach and like your eggs you try to have him on toast each week





I have not exonerated Mac from poor recruitment but it is my understanding that GH likes to keep this area mainly to himself. Of course they must discuss things together but without being a fly on the wall I cannot apportion blame like you do. It would appear you are privy to the minutes of meetings.



I have already said I can see whats happening on the pitch but only guess what happens off it. Hence I find it difficult to blame the coach when he has been dealt such a lousy hand this year. I am sure he will be the first to admit he has made some mistakes but that does go with the job of coach.



No. and that is why I do not criticise him. If I had evidence then perhaps I would.



You are not fully aware of all the circumstances that lead to his decisions. He is the professional coach you are not. So by repeating the mantra of him making the same mistakes week in week out does not make it true.



I repeat you are not aware of the exact circumstances. I do not always agree with all his decisions or everything he says but in my experience of coaching and managing a team very often things are not what they appear to be from the view from the terraces..



There have been some positive signs recently but I too am not expecting the turnaround to happen until we get more of the experiences injured back and can field a settled team. As it would be a miracle for us to get into the top 4 this year I have mentally written it off to as a bad year at the office and think we should use the rest of the season to prepare for next year even if that means fighting our way back from the middle eights.



You do not have an exclusive on wanting better. I favour a pragmatic approach and I am not expecting many more wins just yet. But I don't believe it is a good idea to risk jumping from the frying pan into the fire. To keep punishing ourselves with constant talk of "must win" games only to be disappointed again will only send your blood pressure up when it doesn't happen.

Leeds are sitting bottom of the table, if the next game at home to a fellow top eight contender is not viewed as a must win game by everyone involved in the club, coaches, players and supporters alike then they might as well all join you with your feet up by the pool.

Given that we play Wigan and Warrington in the following weeks, if we can't beat Cas at home we may as well turn it in with respect to the Super 8s regardless of whatever mathematical analysis suggest is possible.

Yes, the 8 that started the Grand final, plus Ward would all start. We both know it. Handley wouldn't start if Briscoe and Hall were fit. If you believe otherwise then you're deluded. If Ward and Ablett are fit, Delaney would probably start at loose, like he did many times last year. If not, he'd definitely have a place on the bench.

As for Falloon? Who knows, but he was signed as Aiton's replacement, and he's our only hooker.

So there you have it. 10 that would have played. Not really sure how you come to the conclusion of Cas having it worse because they had a prop at 6. Hitchcox was on the bench, so Hampshire could have slotted in at 6 anytime

You simply don't get it do you - it isn't about replacing players it is about whether those replacements would actually improve the team?

Would Hall or Briscoe be an improvement on how Handley is playing? Yes they probably would be selected ahead of him doesn't mean they will perform any better.

Delaney has struggled to play more 20 effective minutes in any game this year so his inclusion would be a detriment to the side - Keinhorst offers far more.

Falloon has shown he isn't good enough at this level, his inclusion will weaken the side

So we are now down to 7 - I would agree Hardaker, a winger, Moon, McGuire and Ward would make a difference. So would Roberts, Shenton, Gale and Mariano for Cas - so have Leeds really got it that much worse than other sides - compare it Wigan I would say not.

Some on here after the League loss at Huddersfield said if Leeds get McGuire, Hardaker and Cuthbertson back they win that game easily.

The following week they got two thirds of those mentioned back and it was Huddersfield not Leeds that won with ease. As Sal just pointed out Leeds are not the only team that will improve - if there was an improvement at all.