That pretty much sums it up (apart from your obvious bias against Kirke who had a great game - in the argument you always use for Bailey, successive Leeds coaches have picked him in Grand Final winning teams...he's arguably playing his best rugby for Leeds right now and deserves a bit of credit!)

He didn't concede every collision at all. He got through a hell of a lot of work in attack and defense and he certainly won a lot of his defensive collisions. Give him a break!!!

Honestly Andy, it isn't bias. It's honest observation. I had a guest sat next to me tonight that doesn't usually watch the games with me and we made a point of observing Kirke. He had a couple of nice offloads, one dominant tackle I can recall but he simply concedes the vast majority of collisions.

Nope. I'll call it as I see it.

For instance, Sinfield's passing was atrocious in the first half. I like Sinfield. He's a favourite player and he came good in the 2nd half with some nice off-loads. Does that mean I shouldn't comment upon how bad his passing was? Should I give him a break?

No, and I respect your opinion because you talk a lot of sense normally. However the way you vehemently defend Bailey and criticise Kirke when IMO both have similar attributes shows a hint of bias. Bailey had best game of a very good season tonight but didn't win that many collisions. He probably plays the ball a bit quicker than Kirke but not drastically.

Kirke IMO is an honest pro, the type every squad needs. he doesn't miss many tackles and he isn't work shy. He rarely gets driven backwards in the tackle. He can play prop and second row and has been an integral part of our triple championship winning side.

I sound like his biggest fan - I'm not. I've criticised him in the past. Just think you're being a little harsh.

Kirke was our weakest forward tonight IMO

As for Bailey another good performance from TMFMISL

I thought Kirke had his best game by far of the season, and i think that your being very harsh on him

Kirke is a similar player to Bailey in the fact that some speccies dont often realise what certain players qualities bring to the team, they are not game breakers admittedly, but they certainly compliment the flair players in our side with the un noticed stuff they do

Kirke has played in the last 3 GF's, so both Tony Smith and Bluey's opinions appear to agree that he brings much needed attributes to the side would you not agree?

This is a decent assessment. The only thing I'd add is to steal the words of another. He probably gets more game time at a club like ours than he should. My main frustration is that with his size and physical presence he should be a much more dominant player. He frustrates me, which I will conceded, might, just might, colour, but not cloud, my impeccable judgment




Perhaps.

Weaker than Eastwood???

Hardly a decent yardstick though




Kirke is nothing like Bailey IMO. The stats might be comparable but the quality of their work and the aggression is on a completely different planet.

Yes, I would. That doesn't mean he had a good game tonight though so I am not sure why that's relevant on my assessment. BTW, it appears I am not alone in that assessment so maybe it's not just my bias?

If I knew how to bookmark this I would.

G1 concedes and admits errors of judgement (all be it very reluctantly!)



One last point, if we'd had a fully fit to choose from he'd have seen nowhere near the amount of game time he has. We've needed him more than we expected this year and he's stepped up and not let anyone down

I admitted my Judgment being coloured, not errors. Nosiree bob




Again, I'd almost agree with this if you took the words "stepped up" out.

I agree with G on this. I closely kept an eye on Kirke on his drives during the first half. I dont think he won many collision, if any at all. Very easy for the Wire defence.

Should I replace "stepped up"with "charged forwards"

Out of interest - Grand Final is next week, there's one bench spot remaining to compliment a pack of Kylie, Buderus, JP, Ablett, JJB, Sinfield plus Diskin, Bailey, Eastwood (we'll pretend Ali is injured)

Would you pick Kirke or Burgess?

Eastwood IMO isn't 100% and looks a bit rusty, know what you mean but I think its a bit unfair to judge

No, don't get me wrong. I'm not judging Eastwood at all, he's clearly not match fit.

Was just surprised you had him in front of Kirke tonight

Good question and a tough question. Burgess has more upside but Kirke has less downside if you know what I mean? Burgess could have great forward and superb offloads but could spill some ball and be leaden footed defensively whereas Kirke will remain hum drum with few errors but little of note.

I'd select.....................................Ambler.

Thing is with Kirke his drive strength isn't there and you look at say young Ambler who legs keep pumping and breaks tackles yet is smaller than Kirke (may not be the best example)

Big game, reliable player or a coaches nightmare, Kirke every time.

I'd like Scruton, I always did, you're not having Ambler!

Different type of player - Kirke is certainly more in the Bailey mould, if not quite as effective

Me too. Although there will be some revisionism we were in a minority. Many on here expressed a view that he was inferior to Burgess.

I stood in the numpties section tonight. Ablett, Kirke and especially Bailey were all crap. We should have tackled Matt King with his hair but my god, a solid hit into the chest of a Leeds player was met with cries for public execution. Oh, my favorite was when Wire scored thier 3rd... "Come on Leeds! You've gone off the boil. You're useless!"



I'm off back to the top next time. At least the numpties up there know about the game



oh and aparently Leeds were 6-0 down for ages because we were going down the middle all the time whereas they were throwing it about. Obviously field position isn't part of the gameplan now.

Anyway, I digress. Bailey was immense tonight. His workload was amazing and mainly all positive too. Leuluai had a couple of good spells in hisstints but looked out on his feet at 1 point. Ablett though was my MoM. He has great footwork, a big hit and does he lose any collisions? He was smashed on 1 occasion and still made 5 yards extra. He is my 1st name on the sheet at the moment and is the long term successor to the 13 jersey. I think he just got the better of Harrison on the future International loose stakes tonight. Harrison was thier nest though.

Oh and as for Kirke, I'm fully with Mr1 on this. Yes he had a decent work ethic tonight but was it overly productive? The frustrating thing was on a few occasions when the rest of the pack was on top he made good impact in the collision and really took it in but if he can do it then why doesn't he always try it?

Eastwood is a useless turd and should be sent back on the first plane home.