I've already said they still stand up so yes.

You've hinted and alluded to things but not actually offered anything now in 3 posts.

If, for arguments sake they're wrong, no I won't leave the board. If people left here for incorrect calls they'd be no one left on here. If you're wrong I haven't asked you to leave nor would I want to, I've always said people are free to post what they like and you're well liked by some on here so this isn't the Wild West where the loser leaves town.

That me showing and highlighting positives about the club I support gets you to the stage where you feel the need to urge me into a complete disappearance from this board is quite tragic, childish and really does show how deep set some are in their negative vibes about the club. I'd expected better from yourself.

I only called for Mc to be sacked during his first year and was happily proved wrong that we would'nt gain success under him.
Now lets get some true perspective JC i rate performances ,selections and structures on a game by game basis through-out the season giving plenty of praise when waranted and likewise if i think a player(s) or Coach hasn't got it right i will say so.
I believe we can win any game we are playing but again wont ignore things if i think they are wrong not once have i said we are all doomed or consistently been negative.
The top and bottom of it is i think we can still and should be better all round with selections ,structures and recruitment.
Now lets hear your thoughts on the squad and Coach is EVERYTHING really spot on without room for improvement across the board?

Hey tvoc, now I'm curious.

Was there something particularly wrong with the collection of stats in 2012 that makes them less accurate or complete than 2013, or vice-versa?

I see differences in "n" for the averages (metres per game), but not to a degree that they're all totally useless (although I wouldn't use Delaney's for much). So now I have a strong sense that I'm missing something, since you're generally reliable on all things RL-numerical? What am I missing?

There is nothing inherently wrong with the actual Opta stats used here for 2012 and 2013 once you identify which games are included and which games are not.

Of course you would need to know this in order to produce accurate/meaningful averages just in case you wished to make a comparison between those seasons but I imagine anyone who 'looks at stats in detail' would already be aware of this potential issue.

Edit: Ah yes, I was right - unlikely to be a problem then

Why don't you just say what you're referring too. Does one season include the playoffs and the other not or something?

Is tvoc always this irritating?

I'd say 'insecure', but you are right, yes. Knowledge is power and tvoc is disputing the stats without showing or being clear how his stats are right. He is currently in a position of 'power' in this debate as no-one but him knows what stats he is referring to!

He's in a position of embarrassing himself.

Worst case scenario for me possibly is some numbers could be wrong, oh dear.....even tvoc has made errors and had to re-edit.
Whereas he's spent 48 hours trying to get someone to permanently quit this board.

I know which one I'd rather be guilty of.

It's funny how he hasn't asked Gotcha to quit even though he posted metres stats about a few forwards too BEFORE ME that matched the totals I posted, therefore if there's a problem with mine they must be a problem with his.

But then again I post positively and the latter posts more negatively..........and tvoc tells us he's "balanced"

Printer, I didn't hang myself out to dry with them though, and put my hat on them. You did, infact you went further by going into even more detail.

Not sure how you get that tvoc is embarrassing himself. He made a statement and you rubbished it, he responded by saying put your money where your mouth is, and if he is wrong he will walk, challenging you to do the same if you want to stick by your statement. It appears you don't have the same confidence you started with in your stats, but at the same time don't have the conviction to back it up.

Knowing tvoc from these boards, I am pretty sure that if you simply said ok I might be wrong here, could you show me where, then he would probably oblige. Then we can all find out what was wrong.

If people didnt have to leave the board permenantly for making jokes about jokes about Jews in ovens, im pretty sure that Printer is allowed to use Stats provided by opta which could be wrong and keep contributing

If we all had to be right every time we put something on here, this board would just be me writing my opinion for you all to read. As its not and you can all contribute as well lets just do that eh? TVOC can tell us why he thinks the stats are wrong and we can agree with him or not and we can debate it, or we can all find another way to waste time while looking busy at work.

Bloody hell!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm sorry I asked now.
I thought it was a very simple uncomplicated question....what did you think about the match?
I didn't expect the SPANISH INQUISITION...........CUE ANSWER...........

Well you did ask....

It was even more simple by the fact before you edited it, you said JJB had had a great game, even though he never even played.

Rubbished his statement? How? Go back to page 5, he said I was wrong and I simply asked how are the stats wrong? A simple question, I didn't accuse him of lying or being wrong (or permanent banishment if he couldn't), just merely to explain.

He chose not to, not until I agree to some childish 'loser leaves board' challenge.....so yes, he has embarrassed himself there. Not because he hasn't fully explained himself, but because he wants to try and get rid of someone. Had he explained right away why mine are apparently wrong then fine, but he hasn't as has been seen and even others have gotten to the point of wanting an answer off of him.

In trying to prove I'm wrong about my stats, he's proven I'm right about something else.......that he really is a negative doom-monger like I've said previously. That someone who posts positively about the club on here bothers him so much he wants rid permanently shows his true colours as he didn't go after your stats and say they're incorrect. He sure looks very noble and brave offering to leave this board forever if wrong though..........problem is I never bloody asked him to.

You didn't "hang your hat" on your stats, but no one asked you to. And I didn't "hang my hat" on mine either, I didn't say I'll stand by them no matter what, I said I'll stand by them until they've been properly explained wrong......not just been labelled wrong. It's kinda like a courtroom, you need to provide evidence, not just say he's guilty take my word on it.

Prosecution 'He is guilty, you just don't understand why. If he's not I'll leave the profession forever, are you that confident he's not guilty? Prosecution rests.'

I've indicated why the stats, as presented here, are wrong. Am I to understand people are still unaware of the flaw introduced by ThePrinter? Not sure why I would be expected to challenge anyone else on this matter.

I asked no-one to leave the board merely said that I would if I were wrong.

selective memory

I'm probably being dense. Indulge me in a more detailed explanation?

Did I ask anyone to leave though?

I've asked no-one to leave - not now, not ever that I can recall. I've offered to leave myself if I'm wrong to see if ThePrinter was as confident in his statistical findings on this thread.

I think we all got the answer to that one.



Perhaps you are, I thought my previous reply on page 7 was about as subtle as a brick - the implication was seemingly understood in Wigan.

you can twist the words all you like but you know and we know what you asked.

Only a fool makes a quarrel out of a debate my friend.

I offered to leave if I were wrong on this - I didn't ask anyone else to. The gauntlet was thrown down but never picked up, despite confidence in the figures.

Yes you offered to leave and "invited" him to do likewise. The question was at the end.

You are splitting fine hairs mate.

It's clear what he said. He said he would leave if he was wrong in saying what Printer had posted wasn't correct.

Rather than look for some silly point scoring, why not show him to be wrong?

IMHO I already have and I don't think I am the "silly" one here.

Some of ThePrinters stats in question here are wrong - his conclusions that followed appear influenced by the inaccurate figures he produced.

How long will it be before he comes up with the correct stats - perhaps then the questions raised over certain forwards doing less (sorry that should read more apparently) in 2013 than in 2012 can be examined.

Presumably though he will find just as I did that many of his conclusions were not actually supported by Opta's figures.

Your "Sir Jimmy" apologist thread 18 months ago notwithstanding of course