I'm still struggling with when playing the ball forwards with your foot having placed it on the ground correctly became a knock-on rather than a penalty, as seems to be the case these days.

The rules are not really clear about a play the ball and what the consequences are for incorrect playing of the ball. You can also, according to the rules, still drop (or place) the ball on the floor and then play it back with your foot, but now if a player did that I am sure the ref would rule a knock on!

As I understand it, a play the ball has four elements. Lifting the ball clear of the ground, regaining your feet, placing the ball on the ground and then playing it backwards with your foot. To the letter of the law, if one of these elements is done incorrectly then a penalty should be awarded.

I think common sense comes into play though from a ref's p.o.v and they award a scrum depending on what the infringement is. In my opinion, if an accidental knock on occurs, a scrum should be awarded. Where the ball in deliberately played incorrectly in order to try and gain an advantage, a penalty should be awarded.

This happened pretty much in front of me. Senior was clearly held up and was on his back with the ball on his chest. The Hull defenders seemed to assume the touch judge had seen this and released him and Senior reached out and put the ball down just as Bentham eventually arrived on the secene.

Clever play by Senior, naive defending by Hull, poor work by the officials.

As the Hull knock on resulting in 6 more tackles and your second to last try, as mentioned on page one and two, were around the same place and therefore right in front of you, do you have any comment on that?

Yes, that is my understanding, although the lifting of the ball and regaining your feet don't have to be in that order and in fact the rule states "The tackled player shall without delay regain his feet where he was tackled, lift the ball clear of the ground, face his opponent’s goal line and drop or place the ball on the ground in front of his foremost foot.", as long as they get to their feet and lift the ball clear it does not matter how. It does still however say, 'drop or place the ball on the ground in front of his foremost foot'!

And I agree with you and how ref's are looking at it, it makes sense, but the rules don't state what strictly should be done if the above is not performed correctly.

Ah yes the early seventies. Where did they go.

It was the correct decision (slightly), a leeds hand tipped the ball into a hull players grasp and the hull player therefore knocked on. It should of been a scrum for hull for the first knock on from the leeds hand but he waved 6 to go.

Without wishing to be like Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger I honestly didn't see it.

Apart from Senior's first try Ryan Hall's try was also a double movement. He was tackled well short and both his elbows were on the ground.

I think we are all agreed that the officials were poor and both sides were the victims of bad decisions. I'm not going to claim "we wuz robbed" nor can you say that Bentham kept us in it. You were undoubtedly the better team and deserved to win. That 20 minute spell in the second half when you ripped through our defence and offloaded at will was the best attacking rugby I've seen all season. However I can't help thinking that the match may have been closer had you not been gifted a 12 point start by the officials.

rhinogonemad He most definately is not craigloiner !!! errch its me??

I have seen this several times. We might as well not have linesman

Not sure why that would matter as Senior appeared to ground the ball before getting rolled over on to his back anyway.

Are you sure he did not drop to the ground before the tackle and then lifted his arm again before the tackle came in? I am going to look at this again later on Sky, but you could of course be correct.

Having seen it again once, at full speed, on the highlights it looked to me like he wasn't held when he hit the deck and was well within his rights to promote the ball.

That is what it looked like to me on the day as well. Will watch later.

Here's my twopennorth for what it's worth.
Surely with todays technology a 'smart' chip could be inserted into every ball that emits a gps signal and can be tracked to determine exactly if a ball is passed forward or not.
It's the future y'know.

This would only work if the smart chip was smart enough to understand Stevo's momentum rule.

IIRC this has already been suggested and possibly even trialled. The problem arises though as a pass is deemed to be forward when it travels in a forward direction in relation to the player, not in relation to the ground. This would mean every player being having a chip on them.

Also, how do you allow for wind for instance? A ball may be passed backwards and end up moving forwards due to the wind. This would not be a forward pass as it was originally thrown in a backwards direction but would it get picked up by the technology?

What he just said.

It may take another twenty years for the message to get through to certain individuals though. If the game ever changes the forward pass law to just being in relation to the ground (release point to receive point) then we better find a quicker restart option than the scrum.

After seeing both tries again Hall wasn’t tackled as I’d originally thought and therefore couldn’t have been double movement.

I still maintain that Senior was held up for his first try though. Seen it a couple of times now and can’t stop where he grounds the ball.

You don't think he grounded it when he first went over?

Not that I could see mate.

they are not linesmen they are touch judges!!

It doesn’t matter what you call them they’re still ineffective.

Watched it back now and it does look like he just got the ball down when he first went over and was then rolled on his back. However, only have one camera angle, so you can't tell definitely but the in-goal touchie stood his ground and Bentham looked both at a him and the touch judge and gave the try. So the officials thought so and it looked like the in-goal touch judge was in a good position.

As for Hall, yeh, not tackled when he hit the deck and right to promote the ball, nothing up with that score at all.