I honestly thought the NZ game was pointless from the day it was announced, but as you say the players knew the score. Austin is making himself look like a bit of stirrer, which is a shame. Don't see what either the club or the player has to gain from his staying at this point.

In the golden era and even a little after of McGuire, Burrow, Sinfield, Webb, Diskin, Mathers, Ablett, etc etc... there was definitely a desire with the players unlike what we have now, whether the players are content with their levels or just can't be bothered trying that extra 5% (or more), I don't know, but even the atmosphere has changed from crackling to somewhat subdued almost, largely down to the performances on the pitch but we, the fans were the 18th man by all accounts.

Eras, personnel, even prices of tickets have a bearing I feel.

Chris - whether Austin's behaviour is appropriate or not - I personally think it should be kept behind closed doors it does suggest the club could handle these matters in a more professional manner. No doubt his new offer will be significantly lower the player will be disgruntled and his agent here SMTM, will be looking at ways to increase that. Craig and Gary seem to have a challenging relationship - a clash of egos?

If the rumours around Tetevano and Ward and the lack of proper insurance suggests the welfare of the players is a pretty low priority to the club especially the youngsters who the club don't/won't insure. This may well explain why Leeds can't attract the quality of player a club of this size should?

Could it be the golden generation had a loyalty to each other rather than the club - who despite all the money they made on the back of their success weren't prepared to pay them in line with other top players.

Danny McGuire despite everything he did for the club was told he wasn't wanted yet played a further two years at Hull KR.

Does this sound like a player centric club?

Completely agree - his position is untenable now - the NZ game was just a money making exercise and it again shows where the priorities are in the club and it isn't player welfare.

They're all assumptions though that are made to come to a conclusion.

The club has said they have looked after Tetevano and he himself has thanked them for their support, and funnily enough where did the rumour come from - Blake Austin.

What's the Ward rumour Ive not heard anything about insurance with Ward?

McGuire was offered a one year extension with a view to moving 'upstairs' afterwards, but wanted two and Hull KR offered him silly money so he went.

I'm sure Craig Harrison and GH do clash they both want what's best for their own interests, however I have heard say that there isn't a club in the country that look after the younger payers better than Leeds.

As a Warrington fan i've been reading this thread with interest. Some very good posts and i can see where the original poster is coming from. I feel we are in a similar boat to you guys. Constantly rebuilding. Although we never had the success you did. Now we have this air of desperation about us sacking Powell and finding a new coach.
In terms of Leeds. I've noticed over the last few years you are content with throwing money at players around your nearest rivals that have had maybe 1/2 good seasons in total. The likes of Sezer, Olpherts, Gale etc getting a bigger contract with a bigger club and the expectation is quite high. With many of these they haven't performed and could be described as failures in some quarters. I definitely think recruitment has been poor like Warrington. Like others have said, Saints seem to have success with imports such as Paasi, Sironen, Mata'utia, Coote etc. I think if you ask any player coming from the NRL who would they want to sign for to win trophies - there is only really one team - Saints. and it galls me to say it. Maybe that is the unique draw they have. Maybe some players just dont want to come to other teams these days.

I've always seen a lack of ambition from Leeds Rhinos, and Rugby League in general, I imagine it looks good from the owners point of view to keep things ticking over and play it safe but a few years ago I found I wasn't getting value for money so stopped going to the games and buying the shirts etc.

We used to have "Britain's best supported rugby club", I appreciate that was a bit of a fudged claim, but that was before a sustained period of success, the crowds didn't grow during that period, and it is all fine because the real money is in corporate sales, but why not have both? Leeds should have got to the point where sell outs were regular occurrences, but they made the ground smaller and just bumped up the prices. Selling five shirts to one person is seen as preferable to selling one shirt to five different people.

We used to have a world class team, with England, NZ and even Aussie internationals, but we let them go without replacing them. At first the promise was made that we wouldn't do that, and that probably sold enough season tickets, then we stopped promising and the sales didn't go down too much, then we let more players go, and sent out a video/email asking for faith in the youth system, and that meant enough money was coming in to maintain a weak squad, its all followed the same pattern, do the bare minimum to keep the business running, but sporting ambition is a distant second.

We should be putting more on the pitch, better entertainment, higher quality signings wtc. Obviously the salary cap limits the sport, but what I have seen GH/Leeds lobbied for no increases in the cap, I'm sure it makes sense from a certain point of view, but for me Leeds should be driving for bigger and better, not plodding along near the back of an increasingly slow race.

The constant reliance on loyalty branding is clever when it works because you can ask someone to stick with you even when you aren't doing well, which means that poor performance isn't punished by the bottom line. But I know they could do much better with the money, so they don't get any of mine until they can show they are making a better effort.

A very honest post and there will be a good number of people with the same view im getting that way,if Gannon gets picked at six or Handley at one im going to abstain until the club decide to get serious.

I honestly don’t know how the modern RL player manages to get himself out of bed, walk down the stairs and make breakfast, then drive to training if he can’t can’t stand up and put his foot on something the size of a rugby ball. Along with 20 to 30 forward passes a game it’s something the RFL have chosen to ignore like it’s just not happening. And there we have have the death of the game for a growing number of people.

Downward spiral springs to mind.

In answer to the original question, Cade Cust would go down as a marker for our ambition.

If the answer is Cade Cust, I’m not sure I fully understand the question…

Hes the type of player Smith likes "can cover a number of positions " like Olpherts even if he's not very good at any of them.

full circle back to 1990. sign average players on decent money and wonder why we don't win anything.
but hey, we made a final last year so everything's good

He's a better player than Olpherts and in a position we are short in.

So realistically who would we like to sign? Id love us to go all out for Croft but I actually think he'll be in the NRL within a year, we can throw as much money as we want at Salford but if the player doesn't want to come because they want to go to the NRL there isn't much you can do.

So who else?

Your comment about young players is also a rumour not a provable fact. I understand he club require the younger players to insure themselves against injury - given how little these players earn if that is the case its an insult and no wonder all that the best players in that sparkling team at Siddle all went elsewhere.

What is a fact is that despite all the success that team brought the club and financial rewards with it the club consistently paid its best players less than they could earn at other clubs.

Danny McGuire was offered a one year extension and was told he wouldn't be playing in the first team and he would used to butter up corporate clients on matchdays - that is why he left - fact.

Stevie Ward and his charity is helping a close family friend who had a promising RU career halted through concussion. Anyone who speaks to him he will tell you how he was treated by GH. That doesn't show the club in great light. On Tetevano surely he would have been treated as anyone else would have been on NHS - Leeds would have organised an ambulance from Kirkstall to LGI!!

The club do great stuff off the field but regarding the playing side as the saying goes "something is seriously wrong in the state of Denmark"

Spot on, in those days along with my family I used to attend most games home and away. Then came along the golden generation, for me after watching some of the dross it was manna from heaven. Highly unlikely due to salary cap and the strength of the Australian game we could ever replicate that team. However at the moment we seem a long way from assembling any sort of squad to challenge for honours. Looking at saints after the Cunningham debacle they have done remarkably well to rebuild. Also Catalan always seem to pick up decent players and this season look like winning something. In recent years all we have at witnessed at the club is a succession of sub standard coaches and overhyped and useless players.

If the answer is Cust , then my next answer is "No I will not be buying a season ticket"

Hanley, Goulding and O'Neill were hardly average players!

Although Goulding's alleged antics at Headingley were worse than Austin's

On the other side of the coin I give you John Gallagher and Richie Ayres.

Just out the time frame let’s not forget the immortal Sam Backo. However we have signed some brilliant players so it’s not all doom and gloom. It’s in recent times we have fallen by the wayside.

I have to say the game against Leigh yesterday was the most gutless match I have watched at Headingley for a number of years. The Leeds players seem totally disinterested, Leigh players must have been keeping an eye on not getting sent off or injured and missing out on CC final but Leeds never tried to increase intensity

Smith delivers an after match review that quite frankly I think must have been written a few weeks ago as it had no reflection on the appalling spectacle the fans were delivered. I truly believe Smith has no idea how to coach or motivate a team and it’s about time he joined Powell and Last in the tried but failed club.

Final point. Marcus Griffiths. Can we be supplied a copy of the rules he works to because they are very different to the standard ones.

Disappointing as it was, there was no lack of effort (IMO) watching on Sky. Leeds desperately lacked players in key positions to cut through, and Leigh defended very well on the whole. I don't see how it was Smith's fault on this occasion.

Smith alluded to several players being ill // carrying knocks as well. We are probably closer to the bare bones than a lot of fans think.

Slammin Sam was rated as the best prop in the world when we signed him, yes he didn’t really perform for us but he was a very high quality signing.

People keep saying we are signing on the cheap, but we are paying full cap, and since 2015 we gave signed big money Nrl international players, pike Galloway Merrin, both Kangaroos
Lolahea, Hurrell, Tetavano, these are all big guilty players in paper who all for various reasons were poor signings or at best inconsistent. Segayaro
That before we get to Austan Sezar Fusitua in current squad.

We have splashed the Cash on highly rated players, but they gave been let downs

Therein lies the problem - the inability to recruit players who will enhance the squad especially from the NRL. It seems to me we are unable to get the better players and we have to overpay to get anybody to come to Leeds