I am not one calling for Furner to go as I do think he will improve us. However, I will reiterate what I have said since his appointment, we went for the wrong coach. Our needs for this rebuild needed different, and Griffin was the man they should have put in, as I said at time.

Now Flanagan is available, that would also be a big changer.

Furner will improve things, I just see it been longer due to not tough enough quick enough. Exactly my concerns at his appointment.

That is the big worry for me. There is only really Crosby and and fully fit Watkins who are missing and would improve us. Ablett may help a little but we are pretty much at full strength. Peteru was good last night but has been mediocre at best on occasions this season. I'm not yet convinced he has the quality to be a first choice prop for a top side, but is probably our best atm.
Handley has played ok most of the games imo. Not a top class winger granted, but we have far bigger problems than him.
The half backs are terrible.

Your greatest ex Leeds signing is Powell. He continues to get the best out of his players, some who have looked average at other clubs.
Only Mcshane from that list was a glaring error imo, although Foster was given little chance at first team level, so hard to judge.
Gale is better than we have now but we had better players in his position at the time.

I have one impeccable source at the club but I haven’t spoken to him for a while. Got a little insight on Thursday though. It would seem they are in total melt down. Furner
Is not liked and his approach is all wrong. Some backroom guys have left. He has concentrated on attack and not done any defence stuff. That’s all he said but apparently Sinfield is pulling his hair out.

What are our realistic options here?

People calling for Furner to go, the management team to go, half the playing staff to go are delusional as it won't happen, so what next?

We all know we need at least one quality prop and it looks like the club are trying but it hasn't come off yet. Yes this should have been addressed earlier but the squad was in a real mess. They need to find a solution.

Neither Tui nor Myler are having an impact. Part of this is due to the defeciencies in the forwards but looks like time to try mcellend? Certainly wouldn't appear to have anything to lose.

Ferres shouldn't be in the team for me, let alone captain. Perhaps controversial but Merrin as a former kangaroo and SOO would be my captain. We need a leader and I think he would relish the extra responsibility.

And a word of caution for those advocating wholesale academy promotions. Holroyd was good for ten mins last night then ran out of steam. Newman will be good but was dominated in almost every tackle. We have a good crop of kids but they are not the wholesale answer yet.

What is clear is that the players are not playing for Furner for whatever reason. No doubt about it.

Is it that the players aren't playing for Furner or is it that the players are simply not good or hungry enough?

I said when we signed 2 marquee players that it would be fine provided we win games but if we lose other players will quickly turn and say hold on he's getting more money let him do the work. It doesn't help team spirit. It happened in 80s and 90s and it's happening now.

I've been very critical of Lolohea but I'm now beginning to feel sorry/embarrassed for the kid. He has never been, never will be a stand off. He has the potential to be the best full back at the club. Playing him at 6 isn't doing him or the team any favours. It was the wrong choice of player to sign for that position. We needed a playmaker/organiser. GH got that one wrong I'm afraid.

Confidence is clearly lost in the whole team, pressure is beginning to weigh down and there is no leader on the field. I'm not sure you can bring a leader in I think they grow and develop in the group. JP came in but it took him a year to develop into a leader in the group.

The entire club needs to stick together now desperately, board, management, coaching staff, players and fans, everybody it's absolutely critical.

The next 6 month are now about survival. I see people saying it's good Hudds and Wigan are losing but I don't see them as the threat, London will be team we have to finish above.

The players need to dig in and fight and I don't see enough in the group to think that they care or have the guts for it. Mental toughness is what need right now and other than a few I don't see it on show at all.

Be interesting to see the 19s today, who in that team wants to earn a place and have the hunger, fight, drive and desire to break into this team and build a career for themselves and take this club forward in the way the golden generation did in early 2000s because the chance is there for them over the next 2 years.

The biggest thing we miss is professionalism, we are mentally beaten in all areas. I've said before and I am absolutely certain that this group of players have so much negative mental baggage from the last 3-4 years that they are done. We desperately need more new blood and fight in this group to survive even this season.

We have to sign one or two more players this season (soon) who will be with us as leading players for the next 2-3 years, even if we have to back load contracts to get them in. If we don't commit soon to this, then we are really playing with fire as relegation is definitely possible (not yet probable) and should that happen it could easily be 5-7 years before we are back properly competing again.

It's time to make a few tough and bold moves.

Being fair to Furner, coming from the NRL you wouldn’t be expecting to coach basic defensive skills into players in their mid-20s, because they wouldn’t be in first grade over there.

It’s like the previous generation England sides playing Australia; you can’t be coaching skills at that level, it’s about game strategy and the mental side of the game more.

We have too many players who aren’t good enough, especially in defence, and it’s off the back of years of sub-par recruitment and particularly a dearth of quality coming through the youth system. No coach could fix that; we need to continue to change the players and get to 80% rebuild from 40%...

Who are the backroom employees who have left?

If things carry on like this furner might decide pack it in. Can’t see he is getting much joy out of the game at the moment. Last night we were poor but whilst not making excuses we didn’t have much luck. A major blow is Watkins’s struggle. Having him back fit would be a big plus. One thing the majority of poster on here agree on ,is several players are not good enough at this level. Without doubt furner is aware of this so his job is to phase these players out of the club and hopefully bring in some quality.

This is a good post and sums up where i feel we are and the question marks are no exaggeration. I'm sure Furner must feel something along those lines and must be banging on KS and GH office doors on monday if he hasn't already to state his case. Too many lumps of dead wood in this squad still.

It will be a completely different rebuilding job if you get relegated. That's the downfall of P & R.

I don't think the current championship schedule even gives the promoted club the opportunity to compete fairly for free agency players.

The Championship GF should be 1 month before the SL GF and there should be an enforced anti tampering deadline that begins the day after the Championship GF.

You are an NFL fan aren't you?

What was in the minds of GF and co when the old guard were coming to the end of their careers I wonder ?were they so sure the the replacements and the younger players coming would be capable of holding the fort competitively while the transition period went on.Or did they actually think they were capable of winning trophies ?

I couldn’t tell you mate. That’s literally all he said after I asked him how things were going. He may have meant left or in the process of walking away, but I didn’t ask for any specifics.

No mate. I don't like American Football.

No, Furners “job” is to get these players up to speed and if not at least up to a level where they can do a job. Tony Smith took Leeds back to the basics before adding in greater responsibilities as the team grew.

Tony Smith never had to go back, he was handed a team ready to be winners and a desire to be winners, from the brilliant development Powell had done, and he took it on from that. That’s the big difference with us now.

In 2002 we managed to get rid of the likes of Ryan Sheridan, Andy Hay and Karl Pratt even though all were contracted - Daryl Powell no less made the call (he seems to have repaired his relationship with Sheridan since!). news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 339845.stm Why can't we do this now? One potentially big difficulty is bringing in superior replacements mid-season - but if it's a question of making a bit more cap space available, now is surely the time to be ruthless with one or two?

In 2002 we managed to get rid of the likes of Ryan Sheridan, Andy Hay and Karl Pratt even though all were contracted - Daryl Powell no less made the call (he seems to have repaired his relationship with Sheridan since!). news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 339845.stm Why can't we do this now? One potentially big difficulty is bringing in superior replacements mid-season - but if it's a question of making a bit more cap space available, now is surely the time to be ruthless with one or two?

Quote ="Exeter Rhino"In 2002 we managed to get rid of the likes of Ryan Sheridan, Andy Hay and Karl Pratt even though all were contracted - Daryl Powell no less made the call (he seems to have repaired his relationship with Sheridan since!). news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 339845.stm Why can't we do this now? One potentially big difficulty is bringing in superior replacements mid-season - but if it's a question of making a bit more cap space available, now is surely the time to be ruthless with one or two?'" You just don't get coaches being so frank about specific individuals like that now, it clearly worked then though. Those comments about Karl Pratt pull no punches, has any coach since been so explicit about an individual? They normally perform their best impression of a politician in those circumstances.

Quote ="Exeter Rhino"In 2002 we managed to get rid of the likes of Ryan Sheridan, Andy Hay and Karl Pratt even though all were contracted - Daryl Powell no less made the call (he seems to have repaired his relationship with Sheridan since!). news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 339845.stm Why can't we do this now? One potentially big difficulty is bringing in superior replacements mid-season - but if it's a question of making a bit more cap space available, now is surely the time to be ruthless with one or two?'" You just don't get coaches being so frank about specific individuals like that now, it clearly worked then though. Those comments about Karl Pratt pull no punches, has any coach since been so explicit about an individual? They normally perform their best impression of a politician in those circumstances.

I heard the team doctor left. The same source mentioned unrest in the dressing room. I got this second hand but it echoes comments of previous poster.

What right have any of the squad to spit the dummy? Most if them have shown little fight and low quality for over a year. Those guys need to shape up or stop pretending to be full time professionals.

The other thing in the back of my mind (I won't necessarily call it a concern) is how many people saw Furner coming here as a long term move, and not just putting himself in the shop window for a head coach role in the NRL? At the moment his stock there must surely be dropping and a relegation dog fight would be no good, so could we get to a stage where he walks away citing lack of support/investment from owners to protect his own future?

Which is exactly why the club need to back Furner. I state again we should have gone with Griffin in first place, for the tougher approach from the start, but now we should back the choice when the problem now is clearly players.