It's not ridiculous to suggest they're not developed physically enough since members of the Rhinos coaching staff say they're not.
The game has changed. Even from when McGuire, Burrow etc made their debuts. It's much faster and tougher in the middle. Everyone is bigger, faster and stronger. Of course there'll be some who handle it just fine, even thrive. That doesn't mean everyone will or can. As Smokey says, it's a balancing act. They need enough game time to ensure they develop, but that doesn't mean playing them every minute of every week. Because they're not going to develop at all if they're on the side injured.

Liam Sutcliffe is not yet 19. Stevie Ward is not yet 20 and has had 2 major shoulder injuries. There is an argument that Ward ended up playing LESS this year because he wasn't protected

Wouldn't argue with any of that.

Course, it's dependent on Barry Eaton playing ball and wanting a pivot who may not be available from one week to the next.

Who? who on the coaching staff said there not? I don't recall Smokey being on the coaching staff.

It is ridiculous. If you have come through the systems and are as old as 20, then you are ready physically, especially when you have already played 20 games that level.

You might not be ready head wise, which is what I said, but is different to what was commented.

Spot on mate.

Had Ward not got injured early in season, it was a high probability that he would have been playing on Saturday against Australia. Yet some think he is not ready physically for Leeds, dear lord.

Do you not think there is a chance that those two things are linked? That the fact that he has suffered with specific injuries is because he wasn’t physically ready? That to have had 2 major shoulder operations in 2 years is perhaps evidence that he isn’t physically ready? That perhaps Ward is getting injured and is missing games because he is being asked to do too much and his body isn’t capable of handling that workload yet?

Like I said earlier, is that the same for Delaney? If not then no I don't think it is linked.

Perhaps the role he is asked to play could be the key. That doesn't mean he is not ready to be playing regular first team. Like I said, had he not been injured he would have been playing in this World Cup.

and as i said with Delany
and yes, if Wards body had proven itself ready for SL he may have been playing in the WC. But then if his body had proven itself ready for SL i wouldnt be saying he needed protecting.

As it is Wards body hasnt proven itself ready for SL. He has struggled with injury, thats why he isnt in the WC squad and also why i think he needs a bit more nurturing.

I do wonder how a player can make over 30 appearances before it is decided that "no this player isn't physically ready yet".

In case your wondering, yes it is as stupid as it sounds.

When those 30 appearances result in two similar, major injuries, you might look again and say “ maybe playing 30 times at this level was a bit too much for his body”

Ward plays another 15 times and does his shoulder again are you then arguing he is physically ready because he has played 45 times?

He plays another 15 times and does it again are you saying its ok, he is physically ready because he has played 60 times?

He players 15 more times and does his shoulder again is the argument he is clearly ready because he has played 75 times?

Right now Ward is suffering a major injury roughly every 15 games. At what stage does that ratio show he isn’t ready yet for week in week out SL level rugby?

If that happened, what it would show is that he is injury prone and has a problem with his shoulders, this happens, he wouldn't be the first or last that has that luck. It makes jack poop difference whether he is 17 or 27, the injuries would still be there.

It does not mean he is not physically ready for first team action, hence why the club have played him in more than 30 games including a Challenge Cup final and a Grand Final, and that the National team wanted him to train with the squad.

If you think a 17 year olds body is the same as a 27 year olds body then I can’t help you. You would need some remedial biology lessons.

Such a thing exists as injury prevention. If a young persons body is over-worked, they are far more likely to suffer injury. We can prevent such an injury happening in the first place by avoiding over-working it.

I don't know you, and I don't profess to know you, but I do know you are neither a doctor, a coach, or a scientist.

You are wrong in what you have said on this thread, and that I also know.

I am not professing to be a doctor, scientist or coach. What I do know is that anyone who has passed their GCSE Biology exam would be able to tell you that a 17 year olds body is different to a 27 year olds body.

In fact, anybody with a working pair of eyes could tell you that.

And I see you are diverting away from what you originally said. The comparison of 17 to 27 year old was mearly hypothetical in relation to your example of someone busting their shoulder every 15 games. The point was, if that was happening then it would happen whether 17 or 27.

Now back to the silly point of after 30 odd games you believe it is now right to say, Sorry Mr Ward but you are not ready for super league physically. Yet the coaching set up, the club, and even the National set up, somehow thought differently.

I honestly don’t know what you think I was proposing for Ward when I was pretty explicit in what I would do for him, which wasn’t to stop him playing ever after he has hit this apparent milestone of 30 games, but simply to not push him in to playing every minute of every game as his body is proven not up to it yet.

Im not moving away from what I have said at all. Im sticking steadfast to it. Over-playing and over-burdening a young player puts him at risk of injury. A 17 year olds body is not conditioned to deal with the rigours of SL level rugby as a 27 year old. A 20 year olds body is only just completing growth, and that isn’t just growth as in height but growth from a childs body to an adults body, an increase in pelvic size, and increase in shoulder width etc etc. Over the next few years Ward will add size and he will add strength, through training and conditioning his body to deal with the rigours of SL level RL. A 27 year old players body will have already been trained and conditioned to SL level rugby.

Slightly OT, but on the subject of injuries, one wonders what positive impact our so called sports scientists and conditioners have made.
It seems the more we have of these people, the greater the pressure to get players back on the pitch to justify their status and salary.
Am I the only one who has been baffled at the early returns of people like McGuire, Delaney, Peacock and Watkins, when it would have seemed a better long term solution to give them more recovery time?
Getting back to the subject in hand, I do think, given our back row resources. we should have spelled Ward a lot more; overplaying such a young boy could just end his career before it has properly started.

True Fred.
But as discussed many times our Coach and so it seems some of his staff (including players at times) feel that as long as you have a pulse and plenty of bandages and tape then that equals match fitness!!

If it's ridiculous I suggest you take it up with a Rhinos academy coach. I can remember his exact answer to questions put to him on a coaching clinic.
Q. At what age are these lads (at an u19's training session) ready physically for SL?
A. They can "manage" from a young age, but a young persons body doesn't stop growing until around 21/22/23, so my advice is to ease them in to first team rugby.

Further Q. Would that be week-in week-out?
A. Yeah, around 21/22/23 depending on the player's unique circumstances. Prior to that you've got to be careful with their exposure to first team rugby. I'm sure Barrie & Chris (Barrie Mac and Chris Plume) would agree that it's a balancing act between player development and physical development.

Just after he said: Obviously, this is in general and there will be players who can manage it earlier and those who need a bit more time to adjust.

There are some players who are simply prone to shoulder injuries - David Creasser and Gary Spencer come to mind. Other players have issues through technique - IMO its no coincidence that Sam Burgess has been getting far fewer shoulder problems since the shoulder charge was effectively banned.

I'd assume that the club recognise that Ward may have a particular problem with his shoulders and look to work around that as far as possible. The main solution would be to not ask him to play as a battering ram at all - which since he's supposed to be a playmaker is not actually that bizarre.

Agreed BR. I think slowly does it is the way with Ward. I would like to see him as a bench player to give Sinfield some relief in games. I know KS is on there for his goal kicking, but feel that, in KS's last few seasons, we would get more bang for our buck by easing KS' workload and easing SW into a play-making role.
Every person is different in physical makeup, and it may be SW needs to be spelled as he grows, especially as he goes in to the tackle very positively and fearlessly. He himself may also need to look at his technique, a point, I hope not ignored by the so called "sports scientists".

There are a decent number of trained professional sports scientists, conditioners, physios and medical staff involved with the Rhinos.

I'm happy to take their way of dealing with any issues Stevie Ward might have over the opinion of anyone else on here.

I had similar concerns over kallum Watkins a few years ago and have learnt that the Professionals involved with the club are far more adept at reading the situation with players than I am, sat here at my keyboard.
Stevie Ward is an immense prospect and I hope to see him really fulfil the potential in the coming years.

Why the 'so called' and inverted commas?