Some people can't seem to grasp that fans still go because they actually still enjoy the occasion of turning up for a match, the getting ready at home, the making your way to Headingley, having a pre-match drink with your mates (some you might only see at the rugby) talking about the rugby and having a bit of banter about other topics, getting there just in time perhaps to catch the end of a Under 20's game and seeing if anyone catches your eye, the excitment of the warm-up and wondering who is in the starting line-up for both sides and how are we going to play, the opera guy singing Volare, 80 mins of rugby action (which i guess must not excite some people as much as spending their Friday nights at home playing Scrabble instead whilst listening to the game on the radio) following by a post match discussion/debate/drink with your friends or family members.

Just because they don't enjoy it anymore they have to come out with suggestions that those who do must be 'brainwashed', 'clueless' or 'fickle'. Perhaps they need this to feel better about the fact others still get an enjoyment out the sport that they no longer do themselves. I've always found it ludicrous that 'fans' complain that players (who are the ones who spend their lives training, recovering from the injuries and batterings their bodies take, and competing in one of the toughest sports) are criticised because they 'owe' fans performances because said 'fan' has in return gone to the much harder trouble of 'turning up and handing over £20'.

Some i'm sure will try counter this with 'well they wouldn't have a wage if it wasn't for us', yes but you wouldn't of got many a great occasion over the years of watching RL from their hugely demanding physical efforts, and i don't and never will feel any sort of 'ownership' of players just because i spend money towards the club, if that was the case then i guess i also partly 'own' my local supermarket, corner shop and chinese takeaway. I've never paid anything towards Leeds Rhinos because i've felt force to, i do because i want to, unfortunately some can't seem to accept this is possible but that highlights more of a problem with them than it does myself or anyone else of the same view.

Finally some sense in the last couple of posts.
It always confuses me when I read people on here saying "god I feel sorry for the season ticket holders".
It's not an obligation to buy one, it's as much about the social aspect as it is the rugby, the enjoyment dosen't just come from whether we get the 2 league point or not.

Ok 'Brian' let me repeat maybe I am just having a bad day at the office (again damn it) but I feel nowt but doom n gloom at t' moment with recent and ongoing events.

I would hope the club might now be showing signs of valuing the likes
of Amor/ Singleton/ D.Smith above the likes of Kirke/Moore/Lleulai and yes even Peacock.
The future is surely more important than continuing to support crumbling and/or average-at-best, antique incumbents (despite their past achievements) ?

Losing is fine (yes we were unlucky to have Danny's try disallowed at Wigan last year) as long as we show some competitive 'fight'.
This season, were Saints (Langtree), Wigan (Headingley), Warrington (Halliwell Jones, in the first 25 mins) fair examples of this ? I was pretty embarrassed as a supporter. The performance of Bradford at Easter was pretty abysmal too.



You can't deny Hall has been wasted on attack and that Hardaker is not best suited to the left with his step off the left/inability to pass to his left. Get him on the right or, of course, at FB ...OR even switch him with Hall (during the match at least). That might get a few defences nervous.

Most of all get some go forward in the pack and control that bluddy ruck.

Taking the pi$$ out of his name. Christ (oops!) what a crime. Lighten up. Personally I think 'McDumbnut' was quite inspired.

There's a difference between outright unthinking brainless abuse and some choice, funny comments that I have usually found on here.

Each to their own. I personally think he's earnt a level of respect higher than that. As a teacher I hear 11/12 year old kids use similar nicknames on a daily basis - I would have hoped that supposed "adults" on here would be above such things. Obviously not...

Some people are easily impressed...

... i'm surprised you're not more happy with our performances!

I agree!! Now shut up SandwichExile!

I guess I don't take life (and certainly not sport) too seriously ....yeah it's good to win and yeah I would like to see some new talent, but losing and seeing the same old faces is no more than an irritation that can be easily alleviated by the greater demands and pleasures in life that my wife (and watching clouds) offer.



I enjoy coming on here to wind some people up and because, generally, there are lots of worthwhile comments to read from a collection of pretty erudite and eloquent people. I do wish they would learn how to use the apostrophe though

Whilst i wouldn't personally do stuff like calling anyone McDumbnut, i've seen Nantwich has always posted in a light hearted way with no malice or aggression in the way he writes or in his views so he's not exactly the worst culprit, some of whom have posted about McDermott and/or players with some real OTT venom.

Nantwichexile - I could not disagree with you more about the forwards. We were right to loan out Amor and Singleton - Amor had a chance with us and came across as OK at best, so to loan him to Wakefield gives him some game time and helps him develop (hopefully to return). He looks good at Wakefield but someone else has pointed out, and I have to agree, that everyone raises their game aganst Leeds and I would be concerned with him that he can't handle that intensity. Singleton will be immense when he is ready, but let me repeat MYself by emphasising how important it is to phase young players in (please see my several comments above). I agree I would like to see him play a couple of games for us though this half of the season. The future IS important but Singleton and the likes will be better players for learning from Leuluai, Peacock and Moore. Both Leuluai and Peacock have been loyal servants to our Club, still play well and are capable of more, why would we drop them? Richard Moore, as I mention in my original post, has been great for us this year - he often makes three or four tackles in a row, can make a great offload, and attracts good numbers from opposition defence. You haven't really offered any justification for your views that these three need dropping, but I would agree that Kirke has been off the boil for a while now.

So we've had some disappointing performances this season, and you name 3 games where we had 80 minutes of rubbish. What about the World Club Challenge? Salford away? Warrington at home? Catalans at home? We've had some quality performances this year too, so let's have some balance.

I agree we haven't seen the best of Hally, and I'm going to repeat myself AGAIN about Hardaker - he's not been playing his best of late, but this is his first full season!

I completely agree with Hyperbolicrhino - a coach who has led us to 3 finals in a year, winning 2 of them, has earnt a higher level respect than to be name called. I have no problem with humorous comments in general but the comments and names are personal and insulting, nobody gave Tony Smith or Brian McClennan any names like that.

Fantastic, another insecure poster who sees disagreement as being "patronising". You said Buderus wasn't aggresive, I disagreed. He's a front foot defender who moves up to hit people - that's what an aggresive defender does. If you are feeling patronised by my opinion that's your problem.
As for Hood, I could give you a list as long as you like of players who have been fully established first team players by the time they were 20 or much much younger. I believe we should develop Hood at Leeds, but maybe he will actually learn more from the coaching at another club at the moment.

DHM - I don't find your disagreement patronising, just your need to define positions and vocabulary for me; if we do disagree, that doesn't mean my understanding of the hooking role or aggression is necessarily different, it just means we see things differently. I think I've been more than fair in what I've said in my posts without being personal (I hardly think anyone could call me insecure).

You seem to have missed the point a little bit with Hood - the age is not the point, of course we've had players who've been well established by the time they were 20, but they were brought through gradually; rarely have we had a player who's been thrown in the deep end and had a long, successful, consistently good-performing career with us.

No, I don't agree with you. Don't assume that's because I don't understand what you're saying - that would be patronising.

G1's post was brilliant. I have never understood people on here who get on their high horse and attempt to laugh at others for attending rugby league games, that I'm assuming we all still love. I'm sure they're all looking for a bite, well after years of reading such posts, here is my "bite", and beware it's a long one, so fat boy, switch off, as I'm not giving you a shortened version.


Do I laugh at others for spending all that money on fags, and going out three times a week and getting so drunk they can't say their name?

For me, rugby is about socialising as it is for many others. Of course, 80 minutes of rugby is the main factor of the day, but it's definitely not the be all and end of.

I've met some fantastic people through rugby (some of the away fans suddenly spring to mind), and I still regularly meet them to this day. Hull fans that I met on a night out in Watford at the cc final, salford fans that were in Manchester after the game once etc etc. There's too many to remember.

Some great moments have come out of away days at rugby in particular, running through Twickenham to get into the ground for the second half. Our taxi breaking down in Salford. Running through Piccadilly on countless occasions (I do understand it would be easier to just get a treadmill). I also remember the time we forgot the final tickets and my mate had to go all the way back up the M1 to meet him.

I accept some people would prefer to have an easier life and listen to it on t'wireless, but for me, I enjoy attending rugby games, for the on and off field drama, win or lose (as long as there is a degree of effort put in).

Some people pick and choose only a handful of games. They go to france to get there holiday in etc, for me, I don't care about that, I'm happy with a saturday afternoon in Hull (Please can everyone refrain from using that as a signature), or sunday afternoon venturing around the capital then sat on the riverbank in Richmond.

I don't have a season ticket anymore as I am obliged to miss the odd friday fixture, so it doesn't make economic sense, but as people have stated in the past, it's an emotional roller coaster, and one I enjoy being part of. Some people feel the same about attending fancy restaurants, and having numerous packs of cigs a day.

Does it make me thick or stupid because I spend 70pound going to warrington, or going to wigan when I know our chances of winning are slim, when I could just watch it on sky, post on here every night attempting to wind people up, and turn up to Manchester in October. Who is one to judge on how one spends ones money?

May I ask you a personal question and please don't feel obliged to answer but are you, in any way, connected to the club?

I only say this as all your opinions seem to run in parallel with those issued in press releases and interviews from senior club employees.

Rhinowinorlose. I like your sentiment and I have tried to maintain an air of positivity in an otherwise over reaction of doom and gloom but I am going to have to disagree with a couple of issues from your opening post.

Firstly, you give far too much credit to Mcdermott for Hardaker last year. As I recall he was introduced to the team, played very well, hit some good form and was then inexplicably dropped. McDermott had a knack of doing that early doors last year, dropping players just as they hit form. Had it not been for injuries to Watkins and Senior I doubt the coach would have pulled his masterstroke of playing Zak in the centres on the run in. It was necessity, not coaching nous.

And putting Burrow on the bench at dummy half was a regressive step that took the team backwards. He's been the starting 7 since 2005 and enjoyed great success with him there (and McGuire at 6 and Sinfield at 13). There's been great indecision from McDermott about how to use Rob and, resultant, this has affected our hooking position. Mcdermott's use of Burrow and the issues that has created elsewhere is not a positive in my humble opinion.

Otherwise, keep up the good work.

I'm not connected to the Club in any way

Aren't you Keith Senior's agent???

Just call me Agent KS. Man in Blue & Amber or Lime Green or Pink.

Hi Fat Boy (that sounds so rude!!) - haha, no I'm not connected to the Club, just a regular home-and-away fan like most of you guys. It's fair to say that I do have a lot of faith in the management though!!

G1 - thanks for your reply. I think Mac was right to phase Zak in over last year - I've said it loads in this thread but I don't agree with bringing kids through too quickly and while he had the physical experience from Fev, he would have needed to adjust to a new Club and very different environment, so spending a bit of time in the 20s was right as far as I'm concerned. Obviously I also mention in my initial post how well Ablett's done at centre so with his experience it was a decision McDermott could afford to make. Dont' forget Zak was also injured for 6 weeks at the back end of March.

I think Burrow is a difficult subject but I can't agree that the decision to play him off the bench was regressive. I really believe that if he's playing scrum half, he can create some of the magic we're used to off the bench where he can't when he starts, and again at hooker he can control the game and spot the gaps better. The last three games he's started at scrum half were Warrington away on Friday, Saints away and the CC semi-final against Cas last year - the semi-final was a terrible game, as was Saints away, but on Friday, we got a lot better on 30 minutes and had a really good last 50. It's no coincidence that this was when Lunt was subbed for Ward, and Burrow switched back to hooker.

......but do you believe in the return of grandad Senior....and gay marriage ?

The stats are not intended to tell the whole story but they are included here for readers to interpret in their own way.

I think the actual phrase I used was =#0000BF"a couple of above average finishes, a couple of below average finishes but overall pretty consistently somewhere in the mid-pack."

If you have a specific problem with that terminoligy then perhaps you'd care to share it?

The list, I think, is factually accurate and covers London's pre-McDermott record covering the 1996 to 2005 seasons inclusive. They give a quantifiable indication of where London were finishing the Regular Rounds before McDermott's influence was brought to bear on the club - and can be compared with those that followed McDermott's arrival. For the record you're saying 5 of those finishes were outside the play-off positions. It's actually 6 plus there were no play-offs in 1996 and 1997. London have so far made the play-offs in 2003 and 2005 - but they failed to do so under coach McDermott's four and a bit years at the helm and that despite the play-off grouping being extended from six to eight clubs for 2009 and 2010.



Sometimes life is tough. I get the impression you don't follow the 'no excuses' mantra. Did Fa'afilli ever play a game for London/Harlequins RL, IIRC he was off to play RU without ever lacing a boot for McDermott?



The last eight years don't particularly concern me anymore, it's the direction it's currently heading in that's the issue. It also appears to concern the CEO (who at least is beginning to question attitudes within the players), the coach and the players themselves if the regular soundbites coming out of Headingley are to be believed.



=#FF0000That will probably come as news to record keepers everywhere.

=#0000BFI agree with Cummings that video ref Ganson made a harsh call on the interpretation of the kick/knock on but IIRC with 9 minutes remaining the awarding of the try wouldn't have guaranteed the reversal of the result as you imply here. It may have but it equally may not have as Wigan chasing the game would have approached their remaining sets with a different mindset just as they had done at Headingley earlier in the season.

The point, as I'm sure you'll appreciate, is that under McDermott Leeds are recording fewer wins (on average scoring fewer points while conceding more) when compared to the final season under McClennan - when facing their major competitors for honours. That really ought to be a concern to the powers that be (even if not a concern to some fans) as they will not be able to avoid, lets say, a Wigan in the play-offs every year as they were able to do in 2011. McDermott's Leeds record V Wigan is now =#0000BFDraw, =#FF0000Loss, =#FF0000Loss, =#FF0000Loss, =#FF0000capitulation and perhaps even more of a concern is that since Maguire changed the culture of the ex-Central Park club Leeds have won only two from the last ten (with one draw) and those two by a cumulative points advantage of 3. By comparison the losses (bar the previously referred to McGuire 'No Try' game) Leeds haven't really been anywhere that close on the final scoreboard.

I'd hoped those days were behind Leeds but they have returned. Whether they remain long term is in Leeds' hands. Inaction is not the answer. What any serious club requires first and foremost is a top-class head-coach - one that the players can understand and follow. Not convinced that Brian McDermott can take the club forward, no matter how many 'lucky draws' his team benefit from.

I can't help but read your opening statement in a camp voice in my head.

Regarding your point against bringing youth through two soon I don't fully agree with. I think each person should be judged on a individual basis depending on their physical and mental development. Some kids are ready
For first team action sooner and shouldn't be held back because "we don't play them regulary till there 20" attitude. I am not a expert
So I will go with decisions made by the coaching team who are more qualified

On McDermott people are entitled to their opinion on him. Last Season I was critical and probably said things in the heat of the moment. I have learnt my lessons and tried to be more patient and not personal against him, I feel he at least earned the right to be given time last year and so I have tried not to be too critical. I think most people who are making these comments are doing so after or during a poor performance. Which i can understand. It passion and they are upset by poor performances.

Hi tvoc - where I mention Fa'afili is that someone of that experience will feature massively in your pre-season plans, so when, as you rightly say, they never even get to play for you, that has a big impact on your team and your season. I don't ever believe in 'no excuses' (though I do think excuses only get you so far), and at a Club like London which struggles to be self-sustaining due to lack of interest in the area, financial backing is massively important to the formation of a decent team.

I think that the success over the last 8 years has shown the desire of the management to build and maintain a competitive, winning team, so when I say I'm not concerned, this is because I believe they will get it right in time for us to be better next year (at the latest).

I beg your pardon saying we lost against Wigan at home last year, of course we drew, but this only assists my point further. I agree that McGuire's try may not have determined the outcome of the away game, but I think you appreciate what I'm saying, which is that the performances were a lot better than the stats you selected show. If we hadn't won the League last year I would probably give more credit to the 6/43 games that you are quoting, but I still don't think you are fair to use these six games only. You also say we avoided a Wigan in the play-offs last year, but are using Warrington, whom we played and beat, as one of the three teams we need to be using as a benchmark. We also beat your other benchmark team, St Helens, in the Final. You're also discussing the Maguire era, with one of those years being played under McClennan not McDermott, which points the finger at the players more than Mac.

Like I say, I think the last 8 years has shown the desire of the Club to win, so I don't worry about inaction. I also have to ask how you KNOW that the players don't understand and follow McDermott.

Ferdy - I don't think I suggest at any point that we should wait until a player is 20 to play him regularly (I certainly don't disagree with Stevie Ward getting a few games!), sorry if I've given that impression. If you read through my earlier posts my focus has been on being mentally and physically ready, and like you I think this varies from player to player.