how many signings did smith make when he got the job? he took what was there and moulded them into a unit. good coaches do that. mcdermott is not, and never will be, a good coach

Nah Tad, I think you are suffering from amnesia here.

Powell developed an extremely good squad of players who with a just a bit of luck could have already been Challenge cup and GF winners before Smith even arrived. What Smith did is add the finishing touches, and took it further.

What McDermott has is a team that has gone through 8 very hard seasons putting their body's on the line, and having very little left to give.

Huge differences in cases, if we are been honest. That is no defence of McDermott by the way, just putting a bit of realism to the case.

i would agree the quality of the squads are vastly different. however i still believe a top coach could mould a team and create a gameplan which would suit us and make us competative.

Not with this squad mate.

There is possibly a huge difference between a top coach and McDermott. But there would be no difference in those coaches with this squad.

i disagree. a top coach would make leeds a team, a unit if you like. we wouldn't win anything but we would be competitive

Karl Harrison is deemed a good coach by many. Could Batley compete in super league?

Many have talked about Harris, how are Crusaders doing?

The coach can not do everything. This squad of players have many who are shot, simple as that. We are exactly in the position that I predicted, even before McDermott was appointed coach. That's not just a coincidence, it's a reality

Agree regarding the differences in quality of squads between start of 2004 to start of this, but I agree with tad a better coach would see us being at least more competitive. Just look at the stupid decisions on players left out at the weekend. Add to that the starting of two impact back rowers and strange I terchanges

Which games have we lost this year, which we would have won with a better coach?

That's the reality of the situation. This squad was in decline, and is now in a worse position.

Appointing a new coach will only give excuses to persevere with out current squad, and in the long run the results will be the same. Sort the squad out first and foremost.

The Wigan draw.

I just think that we should be looking for a coach now, and ideally I would prefer the new guy to have some imput into recruitment and retaining players rather than mac.

Saints, and Wigan at home, Hull KR away, Quins at home?

I'm not disputing that this aquad requires serious changes but the coaching set up is the biggest problem at the moment. Not only do we need a more tactically aware coach but we also require a coach who has the ability to build a squad for the future. I don't think Lowes and McDermottt can do this.

Saints, and Wigan at home, Hull KR away, Quins at home?

I'm not disputing that this aquad requires serious changes but the coaching set up is the biggest problem at the moment. Not only do we need a more tactically aware coach but we also require a coach who has the ability to build a squad for the future. I don't think Lowes and McDermottt can do this.

Well said Tad



I think on our day everyone at 100% we can do far better than the wire match but its the coach that puts the belief into the players with good prep,planning and most of all a plan B!!!!

Gotcha brings out the Smith didn't make much difference from DP line. There's always at least one. Its the biggest myth about Leeds from my 30 years watching the game.

I agree that playing staff makes a difference. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I agree that some of our squad are performing individually poorly, and even at their best with everyone fit we may not be able to win the competition. But its absolute rubbish to suggest that the team put out on Friday couldn't have given Warrington a much better game. They played REALLY BADLY. Far worse than they are capable of.

Underestimating the effect of a good coach is daft. The list of evidence is endless. David Ward in his first season as Leeds coach made us a hugely competitive side with on paper one of our weaker sides (sadly not backed up by the Board in the following year - compare to the massive influx under Laughton straight afterwards). Graham Murray turned a team with a couple of stars and a LOT of previously average players (Fleary, Farrell, Sheridan, Cummins, St Hilaire, Andy Hay, Jamie Mathiou to name but a few) into a really tough side to beat. Tony Smith won us our first championship in 30 years with Lautiti and Bai added to a squad which looked nothing like genuinely capable of winning the competition the year before. McGuire won Wigan a competition in his first year with not that many changes. Smith won Warrington the CC in his first year. In the NRL Wayne Bennett won St George their first title in years again with only a few changes to previous squads which looked to have no chance.

A good coach makes players look better. When you compare Wire's squad to ours one on one with everyone fit there are a number of Leeds players 'better' than (or at least as good as) their counterparts. What we saw on Friday was a complete shambles from one team and a very good effort from the other. Its not that long ago that Warrington were the other way round - lots of talented players who got blown apart by other teams.

Simply put, I don't have any confidence at all in McDermott to be able to turn things around.

Where? Show it mate. It annoys me when people jump in posting something that has not been said. Show where I have put Smith did not make a difference, otherwise an apology would be appreciated.



I agree, not disputing that at all. But when all said and done, =#FF0000no matter who the coach was we would still be on the same number of points we are now, with the same losses. From that you would have the very same posters putting the very same complaints. So what changes?

My own personal opinion is that I would be prepared to lose every week if we played rugby like we were doing in 2005. But the fact is the club and the fans are not going to accept that. And we are not going to get back to winning and good rugby without a change in playing personel.




And no where have I suggested I do either. But it is a pointless exercise to change the coach without having significant changes to the playing personel.

I think we would have picked up a few extra points with a better manager in charge

I agree Ferdy ,Gotcha a better coach would of had us much better organised defensively at least and that's what cost us games against the Pies ,Quinns ,HKR and Saints.
I reckon we'd of won at least 2 of those 4 games mentioned with a better coach.

Pie in the sky fantasy mate. I reckon I could have been shagging Cheryl Cole had I met her.

Yes we will never know but equally you wouldn't be able to know that with a better coach we wouldn't have picked up more points.


A better coach would have made us more organised in defence, respect posession better not just offloading anywhere and I would imagine motivate and get the players to perform better.

A decent coach wouldn't put up with all the arm waving, penalty begging, referee back chatting that this team has been doing for the last few season.

Somewhere on this board I read about how when Smith first arrived at Leeds (and Warrington I think) the first thing he did was teach players how to catch and carry the ball. With a few better carries on Friday we'd have scored more than 6 points. Without giving away silly penalties in the second half we wouldn't have conceded so many points. Yep we might not be winning more games but at least we'd be competing.

I can take a loss, but I can't take been blown away by teams that on paper aren't that far away from us. Wigan, Huddersfield, Saints and now Warrington. I'm not saying we should have beaten them, but we should have been closer to them than we were.

Dropping Clarkson, Burgess and McShane was stupid, and so was putting Robbie Burrow on the bench. It was like he wanted us to lose the game, putting in form players out of the team and letting players who haven't hit any form at all have a go.

McDermott needs to go. If he wants to ruin a club that were challenging for trophies, he's going the right way about it!

Agree the most stance decision that has been made wasthe leaving out of in form players

Too right Brisbane! A good coach enables players to play to potential, uses their strengths and lessens the effect of their weaknesses by adopting a sensible gameplan - none of which happened on Friday and is the most noticeably missing feature from our recent games. Over recent weeks there is an air of casualness and lack of determination, particulary evident in a few players (eg BC and WH) which nullifies the efforts of the rest who don't know how to play with anything less than 100%. This is what was is so disappointing. The coach has to take responsibility for that and deal with it. I don't hold out any hope for Friday because I don't think McD even knows how to deal with it.

Wasn't impressed with post match interview on friday from sky

How recent are you talking about? Ben Cross (assuming that's who BC refers to) hasn't played for over a month

In your humble opinion of course!


We would of been better defensively for a start with a more tactically aware coach and also had better discipline.
C'mon D when you think back to thoses matches a bit more structered defence with more composure and better discipline would of beaten the Pies and Saints at the very least.