I heard Cross and Hauraki were 'dropped' although if they had a slight niggle then I guess that's an easier decision to make for the coach.

Not sure if this has been mentioned in the thread but Cross, Hauraki, Pitts and JP spent 20 minutes training on the field after the game so, finally, some selection headaches ahead.

Both a waste of the quota and still difficult to comprehend....esp with Ambler and Amor obviously both ready to step up to regular SL standard

Harlequins are trying to turn Ambler into a loose forward.

Watch out Sinny.

Funny, I thought their fan would have us believe it was only Brian McDermott that made puzzling team selections and that Rob Powell was the answer to all their woes?

Not taken long to put both of those myths to bed.

He played very well at loose in the Ireland V Scotland international in the Autumn

The Wakefield board are giving Kyle Armor some great raps for their last two games,Saints & Cas. Its taken him a while to settle but is busting a gut for them so the loan seems to be working is it time for him to come back?

I'm not sure about any of the above but Cross was suited & booted along with JP & Lee Smith before the game whereas Hauraki was on the pitch for the pre-game warm-up.

Radio Leeds said that.

I can't imagine McGuire was going to ever be 18th man. His return will have been carefully planned, not a last minute inclusion

My thoughts exactly.

I agree also. Radio Leeds said that Hauraki was a late withdrawal but I suspect that was kidology. Guest summariser Peter Roe thought so too!

I think you will find that Cross was rotated to be ready to the Cas game.

Although Cross is nothing special I think there is an unjustified bandwagon against him. In Cross's defence look at the following stats per game for our props.

Prop - played - m/carry - carries - tackles - marker/t - missed/t - errors -pens

Kirke - 10 - 6.88 - 8.70 - 21.60 - 2.40 - 1.10 - 0.11 - 0.33
Cross - 9 - 7.15 - 8.66 - 22.00 - 5.00 - 1.89 - 0.44 - 0.55
Burg - 8 - 6.51 - 14.87 - 22.10 - 2.62 - 1.50 - 0.62 - 0.62
Kylie - 7 - 6.66 - 13.00 - 14.80 - 2.14 - 2.00 - 0.42 - 0.71
Bailey -4 - 7.33 - 11.50 - 23.50 - 2.50 - 2.00 - 0.50 - 1.00 (+red)


Bailey & Kirke have made big improvements on their career stats this season (although Bailey has only played 4 games so we do not know if he can maintain his performance yet) and Burgess has been perhaps our best prop. However the only stat Cross is down on is the number of carries per game.

If you look at the game time he has had (which is only about 34 mins per game) it shows he is working harder than all the props for his time on the field.

eg v Bradford. If you total the number of carries and tackles divided by the time on the field you arrive at the work rate per second. Cross has topped this in both games where we have the interchange times available.

So although he is not digging up trees he is doing the hard ugly work including top marker tackler which is an area of concern.

IMO it is Kylie that is looking a bit workshy at present and not Cross!

This just shows what some people have said all along - that he's done a decent job. Unfortunately unless he is the best player on the pitch each week and makes more yards and tackles some people will still be critical. It would be interesting to see how Amor and Ambler stats from last year stack up in comparison?

I was very pleased to see Hauraki and Cross not involved on monday, i would be pleased if they were out again this friday

these are non british players, if they are not exceptional they should not be playing in superleague, never mind for one of the "top" teams - waste of cap and quota

So you'd rather Leeds had never had players such as:

Scott Donald
Kylie Leuluai
Chris McKenna
Willie Poching
Robbie Mears

etc, etc.

I know what you are saying but think Cross is beginning to be the figurehead for our struggles to be competitive internationally. The thing is he has played origin (one of the highest honours in the game) in the last 2 years, he has had a very successful NRL career and will no doubt, along with Peacock be passing on valuable information to the younger forwards in our squad.

For years people said we needed strengthening in the front row and now we are as strong as I remember...in my lifetime and people still find reason to moan. The improvement in Biffa has been a joy to watch but had he not shown this people would be on his back, Amor was a figure of fun at times on here last year, and Ambler is gaining much needed experience out of the pressue cooker of a set of fans with sometimes, unrealistic expectations. I for one, am happy with the way our prop forwards are being handled this year.

While neither have blown me away I get the feeling cross looks to be improving and for
me at the moment hauraki is the more poor of the two.

If Cross and Hauraki weren't overseas players, I'd have no problem with them being in and around the Leeds squad.

As it stands though, their presence is restricting Leeds options for recruiting in other areas of need by virtue of taking up quota spaces. Leeds managed perfectly well up front without either of them on Monday. Having two of your quota players sat in the stands because they're not good enough to get in the side doesn't constitute good recruitment.

Yes I would agree with that.

Absolutely. Cross in particular continues to baffle me.....it's almost as though GH had to justify his trip down under at any cost.

The guy has decent stats but does he really deserve a spot above Ambler, Amor and Singleton ? That's before we consider the quota spot situation and his age. Bizarre.

Cross could have been rested. On current form it is Kylie that is not good enough.

But Cross does deserve a plave above Kylie! When he was signed Ambler, Amor & Singleton were not considered to be ready yet as they still are now. Cross may not be a JP but he is working as hard as any of our other props.

I disagree on Leuluai's current form. He brings the quality to hurt the opposition and that's something the other Leeds props used so far this season (with the possible exception of Cross) fail to demonstrate.

Whist I agree Kylie take the ball in hard, he is not making the yards he once did and his tackle count is not just not good enough. In certain instances he is not getting near enough to the attacker for it to be classed as a missed tackle. His form was dropping last year and his decline has continued. I hope he can return to form soon but IMO has been one of the causes of our weak defence this year.

I thought Kylie was excellent on Monday.

I think Kylie has been outstanding this season. The only player that sets himself out to inflict pain legally. When JP returns to form we're going to have a cracking front row with Burgess discovering weetabix.