Maybe so, however your missing my point, some fans are seeing his name and treating him as though he was the player he was 6 or 7 years ago. Yes he still has the touch but he isn't as influencial as he once was

my point is some fans dont look at the rest of the team and see the contributions that the "unsung" heros of our team make and would rather focus their attenition on Buderus

Dont get me wrong, we have him in his twilight but other players are worth of more praise IMO

Although I disagree with your stance on Buderus in general, I have to agree here. If you say that he has won 4 games single handedly, then you should be able to name those 4 games.

Personally I am not sure that in the setup we have with Buderus and Diskin sharing the hooking role, and neither being 'impact' type hookers, I can't really see how either would be in the running for MOM awards, and as such not a valid measure. I accept this also does add fuel to the fire saying that for the 40mins a week we get out of him that he's too expensive, however I don't know any details of his cost, so can't really comment, but it does still look that way.

In terms of good games he's had, the game at Quins last season was also a great performance, though I wouldn't go over the top and say he won it single handedly.

Its actually one of the better long running debates, where most people actually contribute different opinions on the various facets of one of they key areas of the squad. On the whole its done in a grown up matter.

Go throught the many threads and they will be repeated, the games in question will be repeated.

Its boring. It would not be so bad if the trolls waited a few weeks to bring things back up, but it's now weekly, soon it will be daily.

Danny is a poor troll these days with nothing to contribute at all on this forum.

No they haven't. You're just making things up again.



[uTranslation: [/uI made a claim but cannot back it up with cold hard facts.

You're a pale imitation of your former self, which really takes some beating I hasten to add.





Which 4 games were they again?

I'd say overall Buderus has been a little disappointing.

For the reputation he came with he should be running for MOS but I don't think he's been anywhere near that kind of form so far.

I can think of a few good games he has had but no "match winners"

Injuries are part of the game so it's very harsh to criticize him for that.

He is better than Diskin but we have managed fine without him before (including last year) so IF he is on the mega money we guess then I think it could be best used somewhere else.....but where?.

I don't blame GH one bit for signing him, when someone of his calibre becomes available sometimes you have to go for it, at the time we only had Diskin of regular first team standard and with most clubs using 2 hookers nowdays it wasn't the worst move in the world, I don't think Buderus has done anything wrong and he gives his all but like quite a few Aussies who come over he has found out that SL is not the walk in the park they expect.

I don't mind if he stays or goes but if he stays I would imagine GH offers reduced terms.

that pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject. Though similar to what I said above its hard for a hooker playing 50% of the time to be picking up MOS (unless he has a rev V on his shirt

)

The Danny Buderus we are seeing at Leeds for 40 minutes a week is the same Danny Buderus who was playing a regular 80 minutes a week in the NRL as recently as 2008. Those posters who think this Danny Buderus is a pale imitation never knew the Danny Buderus of which you speak. The key difference here is that the old Danny Buderus played with a genius (if occasionally a flawed one these days) at scrum half and 1st receiver. They were the magical combination, they both read the game as one, they instinctively knew where to go next, they made the right call more often than not.

Rob Burrow, Danny McGuire and Kevin Sinfield unfortunately are not in Andrew Johns' league.

Probably that's just as well for the rest of Super League.




You are correct some posters do appear to have an issue where Buderus is concerned. It's usually in response to their provocative contributions that Buderus is discussed the most while perhaps the unsung heroes are not.



It's an open forum, if you want to discuss the unsung members of the squad perhaps you should do something about it?

I've seen more life in a tramp's vest than I've seen on here recently.

No? Really? I didn't remember you doubting it when it was discussed last year, but neither does that mean you agreed with it.

But I would suggest anyone in doubt should get hold of the videos of Cas away, Huddersfield at home, and especially Wakefield away and Hull KR at home, to see just how highly he influenced the results in those matches. In each of those games he was needed for the lates spells in order to win the games.

Of course he played a huge role in other wins, but those 4 inparticular he was absolutely paramount to the result. Coincidentally they came at a period working towards the game he was injured and ruled out for rest of the season. A game in which even the oppossition fans were quick to state that they wouldn't have won had Buderus not got injured for Leeds, due to the influence he was having on the game.

By contrast, and this is in no way a slight on Diskin, becuase that shouldn't have to be the argument. But Diskin did not pick up man of the match in any single game last season, and indeed hasn't since 2008.

I think for the tag he came with he's been more than a little disappointing.



Agreed.



He certainly has had some good games. Apparently he won us the game at MM this year though.





I wouldnt dream of doing so. What I will say though is when he got injured last year we did not miss him at all.



Correct.




Correct again.



I'm not sure we have to spend all the cap just for the sake of it.



Not so sure about that. Do you risk upsetting a settled side by signing someone for a couple of years to replace one of the settled players just because he had a world class tag?

Doubting what?

Doubting The Oracle that is Gotcha.

Doubting on the threads that discussed Buderus influencing the result. Like I have said on here, it was discussed a few times last season.

Fair point - and what I was referring to was actually average metres per carry as opposed to average metres per game (my mistake). Which suggests he's either shipping the ball on more quickly or is being wrapped up more rapidly than earlier in the season. There are some very plausible reasons as to why this might be the case - by no means all of them indicative of deteriorating form. I'd be interested in reading views of this as I haven't seen all the games in which he's featured.

Sorry, I think I'm having a thick day

You can't remember me disagreeing that Buderus had won us certain games on his own last year?

I cant remember seeing any threads about it.

Its an interesting point of analysis. Even meters per carry can be a bit sketchy. A lot depends on how the stat is worked out, is it every time he touches the ball? If so, many of his carrys will gain 0m. If its only counted when he actually runs with the ball then it may indicate that he is not choosing the runs correctly, or that the platform is not being laid by others. I'm generally of the opinion that hookers rely to a large extent on his team mates winning their collisions, and allowing him a quick play. It could be that with the various injuries in the pack that our forwards are not performing as strongly as they were earlier in the season. I'd be interested in seeing the same stats for Diskin to see if there is a general pattern.

I think its disrespectful to say that any player won a game on their own. Tey may have had a big influence in it, and made some big plays, but there are 16 other players on a team who will all contribute significantly to the result.

That's fair enough, It was after all a year ago, although they were repeated a fair few times after. You see it never stops.

There is a difference between saying won on their own, and won because of Player A. The statement which was made previously was that Buderus "virtually contributed nothing", which of course was not true.

It wouldn't be the first time for us either. Over the last 7 years there have been many times where we were virtually a "one many team" in relation to Sinfield. Many a game it could be argued we may not have won without him.

Not a patch on when we were the "Iestyn Harris Rhinos"

That's 10 mins of my life I won't get back again - from now on I'm leaving the stats to TVOC



In fact, the corresponding figures for Diskin are very similar - peak by week 3, fall thereafter increasing slightly week 15 before continuing to decrease. At present time, Diskin's averaging about 3/4 of a metre less per carry than Buderus.

It's one thing collating them it's another trying to interpret them. I leave that to the experts.



As someone said on the previous page, 'very interest and somewhat alarming' (I think he may be our Japanese correspondent) Given that Diskin of late had become the interchange option to add impetus from the bench against tiring defences to be recording a lower mt/carry stat must be of some concern to coach McClennan.

I agree with all of that.

Says to me that our hookers are able to make fewer easy meters around the ruck, which may or may not be related to the impact our other players are making on collision.