True I didn't follow the team in their various struggles in the 80's and my first proper season of following Leeds was 1997......considering I was only born in 1987 I'm sure some find it a disgrace I wasn't a season ticket holder in 1988.



Of course you have because you're the innocent one every time and never rip anyone's opnion on a game.....oh no you do it more than anyone.

Many people have repeatedly AND openly asked you to stop posting your cryptic and baseless rumours but you ignore them........out of consideration for them, jog on with that instead of being desperate to look "in the know". I suspect your "consideration" will disappear for that request though.

Wane as coach? The same Wane who's Wigan team have been embarrassed in WCC games against half-strength NRL sides? The days of coaches being able to 'motivate' players to wins are long gone. Thank goodness.

England were hugely frustrating last night. Our own mistakes cost us field position and points. If we can't cut them out (and I'm sorry but failing to find touch from a penalty is inexcusable in a sport without contested possession) we've no chance against Australia.

I expect we'll see some changes to the squad for next year, but Bennett at least knows who stands up and who doesn't from this year. We still seem to have too many players overawed against Australia in a way they're not against NZ. Hopefully we can get over that and give Aus a real game.

I think Gotcha's been on the pop all weekend.

Widdop's been one of the biggest disappointments of the tournament.

I have told you guys on multiple occasions that the snide remarks, name calling and thread de-railing had to stop.

Heck I've even PM'd you guys to let you know that I won't stand for it any longer and for 24hrs there's been a calm.

I come back on this morning to find ANOTHER thread reported and lo and behold it's the three musketeers again.

You're grown men FFS, can't you guys go 5 mins before name calling? I'm going to give you guys one final chance as I can see that there has been some restraint on this thread, if you want to test me, go ahead, next stop is a ban, I think I can speak for others when I say no one will bat an eyelid or miss your childish remarks if I do.

As I said, the approach and even the way the game's played need to change. If they did, Wane would have a fighting chance. It's ironic that you're commenting on Wane's suggested ineffectiveness at that level yet seem to think Bennett, now he knows who "stands up", is going to come up with the answers.

We are talking about the pinnacle of the sport, players shouldn't need coaching when we get to the this level. Bennett coming out and saying the players lack the belief to Win...sorry mate but that is exactly why you were brought in in the first place! for me it was confirmed yesterday the squad has gone backwards from McNamara, you could tell in the first twenty minutes when we tried to match them with the 5 drives and a kick safety first rugby they play so well, that as soon as they settled and got out of first gear they would rip us to pieces.

There was no offload game or second phase play created from our forwards who were clearly sent out with the message of 'up your jumper' rugby and we never moved the Aussies out of their comfort zone, when we finally chanced our arm after the game was gone and played expansive low and behold 2 tries!

The only way we will beat the Aussies is by playing a game they are not used to to take them out of the comfort zone. Canberra Raiders have taken everyone by surprise in the NRL this year by playing an expansive off load game instead of the generic arm wrestle...we have the hooker who was key to that rise so why didn't we play to his strengths? So yeah, get someone like Wane in to spark the passion and lift the intensity and belief in the group, i see nothing but a massive flop in the WC using a load of cast of Aussies to compound the humiliation if we stick with Bennett.

If we want to play expansive Rugby, Shaun Wane is not the way to go. He may have coached Wigan to the GF but even their own fans agree it is through a methodical game plan. He would certainly add passion, but not sure that is what's missing.
I would like Powell to be given a chance. I'm not sure whoever is coach we are good enough, but Powell seems to get his sides playing to the best of their ability and they are not afraid to chance their arm in attack.

Sorry, does that include my post above?

Re Wane, I'm not advocating expansive rugby. The players we have make plenty mistakes enough without trying to ship the ball on more frequently and more quickly. No, there needs to be a fundamental look at the way the game's played and refereed in this country. For too long we've tried to ape the Aussies in playing error-free, technical rugby where player protection rules. All that's happened is that the domestic game's become less entertaining. It may have got better, on paper at least, but it's not reached a standard that would justify that reduction in watchability. Yes, I know there are those who appreciate the technical skills that we've imported but I'm not convinced they're in the majority - or even a sizeable minority. There's no law that says we have to retain the rules and interpretations we currently use. Roughen things up, use whatever advantages we have to level up the inequality in participation between the two countries. Do things differently in a way they're not used to. Because the alternative is watching an endless stream of internationals and SL seasons of the standard we've had to endure for the last few years.

I thought Widdop was very good apart from the two instances he failed to make touch.

Otherwise I would agree that Sam Burgess has been the biggest disappointment of the tournament. Perhaps someone else should be captain?

In the backs, Hall was exposed for his dwindling pace and Lomax does not look comfortable as a defensive fullback. McGillvary was very good. Without making big blunders, both Watkins and Percival looked too small to make an impact at this level against the likes of Inglis and Dugan whose extra power made all the difference when there were scoring opportunities.

Halves - Williams needed more game time. Widdop had an off-day with his kicking but looked to offer more than any other halfback tried so far. Brown did okay.

Forwards - Hodgson was immense until taking a knock in the run-up to Burgess's bombed try. That was the turning point for me. The younger Burgii and Bateman stood up very well, and Graham looked good too. Hill solid but looks a bit over the hill at this level. Clark missing on the bench was a questionable decision.

Bennett needs more time IMO. His comments about club rugby were spot-on IMO.

Extremely disappointing performance. I can't see any positives from the new coaching team, if anything we we have gone backwards.
Kevin brown at international level, no thanks. Sam Burgess for what ever reason is off the pace. Unfortunately the gap between the two sides is as wide as ever. Also the decision to play the game in London was wrong, if the game was in the north I would have attended. I was not going to trek down to London with all the extra cost involved with that journey.

I would agree with just about everything here by this poster, except the Hill and other Burgess bit. Hill is very very good, but would go for Taylor over Tom Burgess every time.

What I found disappointing & surprising given an Aussie coach & how many of our team play in the NRL was how slow we were in coming forward in defence compared to the Aussies.
They made many more metres before we made contact with them than vice versa & I think that they only got pinged once or at most twice for being off-side.

Are you saying you think Hill's good in general or that you think he was good yesterday? If the former, I'd agree. If it's the latter then I must be missing something.

Clearly they do need coaching, that's part of the problem. If Bennett had the players the way Eddie Jones has the England RU team then he may have had a chance of giving them some belief, but he doesn't. He also doesn't have 10-12 internationals a year to build a squad and he has half his team in Australia and half in the UK. To expect him to walk in and fix everything that's wrong with British RL with so little access to the players and so few games to do it is fantasy.
The squad hasn't gone anywhere since McNamara, the game plan employed against a massively under strength NZ team was completely boring and lacking in anything resembling skill or imagination. It was awful to watch and wouldn't have troubled even the weakest NRL side.
We created chances yesterday in the first half but didn't take them - again. The skills required to take passes under real pressure are simply not there. In SL you will always get another chance so our players simply are not good enough to convert at the highest level. Of course the Australians opened up once they got a couple of scores ahead but until then they played the same game we did. In fact their first try was purely down to two extremely poor refereeing decisions giving them firstly field position then a repeat set on our line. But they took the chance when Percival bolted out of the line (taking Hall with him) for no reason at all. Pressure caused the mistake.

I do believe with the skill levels in SL we won't beat Australia playing the same way they do, but Bennett has to be given time to work with these players. Again contrasting to the England RU team they effectively get a tough 6 nations comp to warm up for playing the southern hemisphere sides. France and Wales in particular are very tough opposition who have world class players. In league we have nothing like it. We need to play Australia and NZ more often and we need tours to get in that kind of shape - but we know this isn't going to happen.

We have to accept the now obvious fact that SL has fallen so far behind in skill levels that even this totally forgettable Australian side is beyond us.

For all of McNamara's criticisms, the one thing I felt he did really well was improve the team spirit. It no longer felt like a bunch of individuals or little groups determined by club friendship (the '08 WC Leeds-Saints divide for example) and I don't think they lacked belief in 2013 & 2014 that they could win (even though they came up just short).

Whilst not bad, I think that team togetherness wasn't as strong under Bennett and yesterday was a step back to 5/6 years ago when as soon as we went 2 scores down they looked to have accepted their fate.

With Hill you probably saw the effects of a full season in which he does a lot of minutes for Wire catch up on him a bit.

I was meaning going forward as a team, so in general. He is at least one of the players who matches his oppossite number at this level. Which is what I was saying on the earlier posts also.

I agree with a lot of what you have put. Regards Bennett though, he has been brought in to instil the belief and correct game plan to beat the big two. On both fronts he has fallen woefully short imo and i really don't see how he changes things for the WC next year as like you say he won't really be spending any decent time with the group before it.

for me, we were missing a real leader and game manager with a cool head and excellent kicking game. How we could do with former England scapegoat Mr Sinfield in this team which finally does have the capabilities of winning these games but looks rather rudderless with what we have at the moment in the halves. over the two games against the Aussies and Kiwis it has been the likes of Johnson, Thurston and Cronk that have been the biggest difference makers between the teams. We just don't have that quality in the halves right now and it shows big time.

I agree. Hadn't read all the earlier posts so apologies there.

Two minor things, Ireland are a far better RU side than either France or Wales.
Secondly, the role & massive influence of Cameron Smith appears to be overlooked.
Thurston to me now looks as if the years are finally catching up with him.
What a player he has been & his goalkicking yesterday was exemplary when it really mattered.
Cronk benefits massively from playing continually with Smith, two more future immortals but as Jonathan Davies said (one of the few proper insights he gave) when all three of these retire there will be ready made replacements taking over from them.
Something we can only dream about.

TBH England have been poor for the last 2 seasons. Versus NZ we were dour and uninspiring. We needed to raise our game after that and we didn’t. Some things that stood out for me:

1. We lacked intensity in defence. There was poor line speed and a lack of aggression. Occasionally we raised it but too often vs NZ and Australia we let their pack bully us – check out the metres made stats. The idea we have a good pack is a myth. On paper we might but not when it matters. The Burgesses are way out of form. Players struggled to read Hodgson, Bateman is too small, Hill was knackered, Taylor too ill disciplined, Farrell not good enough, Clark underused.

2. Our lack of dominance up front made it hard for the halfbacks and they lack the quality of Johnson/Cronk/Thurston anyway. Bennett wants a midfield general but there isn’t one. Williams is good running the ball but is dodgy defensively and apparently is “not vocal enough”. We need playmakers who can call the shots. Brown is too slow/past it. Gale isn’t good enough. Widdop is steady but need to be partnered with someone who can complement him. Answers on a postcard.

3. Our backs lack star quality. The wings are adequate but there’s nobody capable of doing anything special when it’s really needed e.g. Robinson/Offiah/Newlove/Davies etc. Lomax is steady but not going to worry the opposition. Percival is barely out of nappies. Watkins needs to get involved more and be more proactive and aggressive.

Where do we go from here? We need a combination of Wane’s grubby tactics in defence and Powell’s approach to attack. I don’t think we have the quality really and can’t see it coming through either unfortunately.

It's hard to disagree with Bullseye's analysis.

I disagree, it's not a dream it's a reality. We can easily replace all the mediocre players we have in the team now with similarly mediocre players. It's a never ending production line of mediocrity.

It kind of says it all when players that cannot get near an Australian shirts (namely the Morris', Heighington, Hodkinson and Willie Manu) were being touted as coups.