Sinfield said after the game that nothing would be announced until it was certain that SL was guaranteed, ie after the Toronto game.

We could be safe on Thursday if Toulouse beat Salford, I would live that to happen because for the first time in a long time I will look forward to the game on Friday

I've enjoyed the Middle 8s this season...the level of unpredictability and the potential for upsets has been interesting and has added some much needed excitement. Your fundamental point about standards is sadly accurate. In fact there was a point whilst watching Leeds at London where I thought this is so far removed from the game first hooked me in the late 60's that it was almost physically painful to watch.

Completely understand what you mean. These days, the game is often quite boring, there’s many a time I’ve been watching a TV game and gone into the kitchen to make a cuppa, only to not bother going back to watch the match again.

If it’s getting to this stage, it’s time to really do something to pick up the interest level again.

The game needs some new attacking ideas. The defences have improved and innovated significantly over the last decade, but it's become too much about 'the wrestle', and coaches and players haven't found a a way to counter that consistently.

The problem is when they've tried to clamp down to speed up the PTB it just leads to bucketloads of penalties. Good defensive teams in the NRL don't care about giving away penalties. The only thing I think could help is reducing the interchange. Whilst it won't speed the game up as such, it would reintroduce genuine fatigue and potentially give more space to halfbacks.

Predicted final positions.
But if Salford lose to Toulouse, London win against Halifax and we beat Toronto, then SALFORD will be in the MPG again.

12 Leeds Win - Toronto (H) 80
10 Salford Win - Toulouse (H) 109
10 Hull KR Win - Widnes (H) 5
8 Toronto Loss to Leeds (A) 17
8 London Win - Halifax (H) -10
6 Toulouse Loss - Salford (A) 0
2 Widnes Loss - HKR (A) -51
0 Halifax Loss - London (A) -150

That would be really really funny, but can't see it happening.

If we beat Toronto, I think London will get the win big enough to overall the points difference of Toronto, so think they will be other way round.

this years middle 8's is going to the wire (not thew Wire), what a fantastic league this is. Lets have it again next year..............What, the RFL have changed the format yet again. oh no !

Reducing subs from 10 down to 8 is one of the things discussed at last weeks SL meeting

Other things potentially on the cards include shot clock like they have in NRL and golden point but they are talking about 'golden try'

Also talking about doing away with the 'free play' rule

I don't think PTB is a problem, nor with my limited viewing of NRL do they appear any better than us (as claimed by some others). Defences are just better & fitter, techniques improved. I'd have no problems in reducing the number of subs; though whether that would have any effect on player welfare & longevity I don't know.

As much as I dislike Wigan & their style you have to admire their defence. Especially near the goal line.

Seriously? I think the PTB is a massive problem. The Bellamy/Maguire obsession with it has been passed on like a virus. Dominating the PTB is the key to winning, everyone knows it so it’s become a battleground where both sides try all kinds of tactics to get an advantage. The spectacle is awful IMO. It reminds me of scrums in the 80s where a ref could take his pick as to what to penalise as both packs struggled for an advantage. You’d see scrums re-setting over and over until the ref just let something go. Eventually they allowed feeding just so they could get on with the game.

A similar drastic approach is needed to made the PTB less important to the game as a whole. I’ve no idea what it is. The only thing you can do is referee it better. In SL the standards of reffing are light years ahead of the Championship and L1. There I’ve seen PTBs last several hours





I’m sure coaches would whine about it but tough. It would make the qualities of fitness and endurance more important. It would make the monster forwards less common and therefore decrease the force of impacts in some collisions, probably beneficial to player welfare.

I’d definitely bring in the shot clock for all re-starts, penalty to the opposition if they take too long. Something also needs to be done about stoppages for injuries. There is too much cynical exploitation of this rule. I’d say that if a player goes down injured and requires attention and the game stopping he should be removed from the field for two sets for assessment. That'd focus minds.

I had no idea rugby existed outside the top 4 of SL

so cannot comment too much on that. No doubt Bellamy etc have perfected the art of slowing down the attacker but I think the bigger issue is how many defenders get involved. Having just watched a few minutes of early 90s Aussie RL it is unusual for more than 2 players to be involved, now it is 3 or 4, especially if it is up the middle. That can lead to the third or fourth player getting tied up with the attacker trying to get up. But I think it is an over-exaggeration to say it is spoiling the game. It is insignificant if teams are playing like Saints or Cas try to do. Boring attacking rugby is a bigger crime.



No problem with that. No skill required, unlike tackling technique.

It's certainly spoiling the game in the lower tiers. I can't really comment on SL since I only watch bits on the SL Show.

Player ability is more limited in the lower leagues and it's easier to drill a side in holding down or milking a penalty that it is to coach champagne rugby. Refs allow the PTB to be much slower and policing of the 10m is almost non existent. I've endured more than enjoyed rugby this season.

One more game to go. Can Hull avoid having a calamitous season by winning their final game of 2018?

If Hull do lose then that'll be 11 defeats on the bounce and 14 defeats from their final 16 games with their only wins coming against the 2 worst teams in the league: Salford & Widnes.

And yet they've lost to all 3 of those sides in the Super8s and at least once, maybe twice to them in the first 23 rounds.

But yeah.... the format.

But yeah - Hull were always going to be playing in SL next season regardless of losing all 7 games - the same cannot be said of Leeds. Champions to middle 8's or CC winners to top 8. The only person who doesn't see the former as a bigger fall than the latter is you - you really are a bonehead.

So, its the final week of the middle 8s.
Who is going to be in MPG

Salford, HKR, Toulouse, Toronto or London

For starters, lets hope Toulouse beat Salford tomorrow

That would make my week, would love to go to Headingley on Friday without any niggling doubts and I'm sure the players would too.

The 10 metres is a problem, particularly in a league where many defenders are less quick and possibly less fit than their aussie counterparts. Drop the gap to 7 and the defence would have time to get set, meaning the potential drawbacks for withdrawing from the ruck quickly would be fewer. There'd also be less scooting and (hopefully) better attacking. This idea isn't mine: Mal Reilly mentioned it in a recent interview.

Toulouse by 2, Leeds by 26, London by 46 and Widnes by 2.

London in the automatic promotion spot with Toulouse v HKR in the MPG... here’s hoping.

The size of the fall was never the question. Ask Hull fans if they feel like 2018 has been somewhat calamitous for the club and I'm sure 99.999% will say yes.

It's a very weak minded person who can't admit when they're wrong Sal, choosing instead to dig in and go full Trump.
You never cease to amaze in that regard.

This discussion started because as usual you tried to be a smart and suggest that because Hull had had a bad season that somehow made the embarrassing season Leeds have had somewhat less embarrassing. I merely pointed out you cannot compare the two - something you have now admitted to be correct.

I cannot understand why you have kept digging - but then when you are as stubborn as you are then therein lies the answer

And another one disappears up the same a-hole!

Congratulations Hull FC on only losing 14 of their final 16 games of 2018, thus avoiding having a truly calamitous season.