Most posters have already been through this plenty of times, it gets boring. Why should anyone have to repeat things to satisfy your poor fishing trips?

To jump in on the Buderus/McShane comments - TBH I have jumped to the end of this thread before it started to break down into a typical school boy thread...my opinion...numpty...no nowt about league...blah, blah, blah...

For me, I was chuffed when Leeds signed Buderus as I thought he would be another Bai - experienced (read old), but would bring a lot to the team. BUT he has been expensive and he has been injured a lot. Therefore for me, and for want of a better term, I think he has become a luxury player - similar to Brent Tate at Vodafone Warriors over in NZ (don't get me started on centres) - which no top flight league team can afford these days - as much due to the salary cap as to player development.

How have we ended up back here again?

I know this make me look a bit of a geek, but I was looking through the opta stats kindly posted by TVOC and decided to look a bit more closely at the number of metres made by Buderus. At first glance impressive; certainly more so than Diskin. However, if you use the figures relating to Buderus to calculate a running mean, i.e. to determine whether the average number of metres he makes per match has been increasing or decreasing through the season, an interesting pattern emerges. His average no. metres made per game actually peaked in week three. Thereafter, it has decreased week on week without exception. Now it may be that it will increase again towards the playoffs (or payoffs if you prefer), which I'm sure we'd all hope for; in the meantime it suggests to me that he started the season with something of a bang which he's since struggled to live up to (at least in terms of metres made). Is this a fair assessment?

Pathetic.

I made a claim that Buderus contributed virtually nothing. You made a counterclaim that he won 4 matches. Era of the Biff, not unreasonably, asked you which ones they were.

You see, you dismiss my opinions as being an agenda, you dismiss era of the biff as trolling, but you're the one who can't contribute positively to the debate in a grown up fashion.

Substantiate your claim. Which 4 games did he single handed win for us? I can think of Huddersfield away last year as a game when he was a major influence on the outcome. And that is the only game that springs to mind during his entire tenure. How many man of the match awards has he been given?

I wouldn't say that the meters made for a hooker is a key indicator, its certainly not as meaningful as that for the other forwards, as their roles are different. The hookers are more similar to halfbacks in that they are laying the platform for the other players, with many carrys sideways rather than straight towards the line.

You are a geek



However, if we're going to rely upon statistics this the kind of analysis that should be undertaken. very interest and somewhat alarming,

Maybe so, however your missing my point, some fans are seeing his name and treating him as though he was the player he was 6 or 7 years ago. Yes he still has the touch but he isn't as influencial as he once was

my point is some fans dont look at the rest of the team and see the contributions that the "unsung" heros of our team make and would rather focus their attenition on Buderus

Dont get me wrong, we have him in his twilight but other players are worth of more praise IMO

Although I disagree with your stance on Buderus in general, I have to agree here. If you say that he has won 4 games single handedly, then you should be able to name those 4 games.

Personally I am not sure that in the setup we have with Buderus and Diskin sharing the hooking role, and neither being 'impact' type hookers, I can't really see how either would be in the running for MOM awards, and as such not a valid measure. I accept this also does add fuel to the fire saying that for the 40mins a week we get out of him that he's too expensive, however I don't know any details of his cost, so can't really comment, but it does still look that way.

In terms of good games he's had, the game at Quins last season was also a great performance, though I wouldn't go over the top and say he won it single handedly.

Its actually one of the better long running debates, where most people actually contribute different opinions on the various facets of one of they key areas of the squad. On the whole its done in a grown up matter.

Go throught the many threads and they will be repeated, the games in question will be repeated.

Its boring. It would not be so bad if the trolls waited a few weeks to bring things back up, but it's now weekly, soon it will be daily.

Danny is a poor troll these days with nothing to contribute at all on this forum.

No they haven't. You're just making things up again.



[uTranslation: [/uI made a claim but cannot back it up with cold hard facts.

You're a pale imitation of your former self, which really takes some beating I hasten to add.





Which 4 games were they again?

I'd say overall Buderus has been a little disappointing.

For the reputation he came with he should be running for MOS but I don't think he's been anywhere near that kind of form so far.

I can think of a few good games he has had but no "match winners"

Injuries are part of the game so it's very harsh to criticize him for that.

He is better than Diskin but we have managed fine without him before (including last year) so IF he is on the mega money we guess then I think it could be best used somewhere else.....but where?.

I don't blame GH one bit for signing him, when someone of his calibre becomes available sometimes you have to go for it, at the time we only had Diskin of regular first team standard and with most clubs using 2 hookers nowdays it wasn't the worst move in the world, I don't think Buderus has done anything wrong and he gives his all but like quite a few Aussies who come over he has found out that SL is not the walk in the park they expect.

I don't mind if he stays or goes but if he stays I would imagine GH offers reduced terms.

that pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject. Though similar to what I said above its hard for a hooker playing 50% of the time to be picking up MOS (unless he has a rev V on his shirt

)

The Danny Buderus we are seeing at Leeds for 40 minutes a week is the same Danny Buderus who was playing a regular 80 minutes a week in the NRL as recently as 2008. Those posters who think this Danny Buderus is a pale imitation never knew the Danny Buderus of which you speak. The key difference here is that the old Danny Buderus played with a genius (if occasionally a flawed one these days) at scrum half and 1st receiver. They were the magical combination, they both read the game as one, they instinctively knew where to go next, they made the right call more often than not.

Rob Burrow, Danny McGuire and Kevin Sinfield unfortunately are not in Andrew Johns' league.

Probably that's just as well for the rest of Super League.




You are correct some posters do appear to have an issue where Buderus is concerned. It's usually in response to their provocative contributions that Buderus is discussed the most while perhaps the unsung heroes are not.



It's an open forum, if you want to discuss the unsung members of the squad perhaps you should do something about it?

I've seen more life in a tramp's vest than I've seen on here recently.

No? Really? I didn't remember you doubting it when it was discussed last year, but neither does that mean you agreed with it.

But I would suggest anyone in doubt should get hold of the videos of Cas away, Huddersfield at home, and especially Wakefield away and Hull KR at home, to see just how highly he influenced the results in those matches. In each of those games he was needed for the lates spells in order to win the games.

Of course he played a huge role in other wins, but those 4 inparticular he was absolutely paramount to the result. Coincidentally they came at a period working towards the game he was injured and ruled out for rest of the season. A game in which even the oppossition fans were quick to state that they wouldn't have won had Buderus not got injured for Leeds, due to the influence he was having on the game.

By contrast, and this is in no way a slight on Diskin, becuase that shouldn't have to be the argument. But Diskin did not pick up man of the match in any single game last season, and indeed hasn't since 2008.

I think for the tag he came with he's been more than a little disappointing.



Agreed.



He certainly has had some good games. Apparently he won us the game at MM this year though.





I wouldnt dream of doing so. What I will say though is when he got injured last year we did not miss him at all.



Correct.




Correct again.



I'm not sure we have to spend all the cap just for the sake of it.



Not so sure about that. Do you risk upsetting a settled side by signing someone for a couple of years to replace one of the settled players just because he had a world class tag?

Doubting what?

Doubting The Oracle that is Gotcha.

Doubting on the threads that discussed Buderus influencing the result. Like I have said on here, it was discussed a few times last season.

Fair point - and what I was referring to was actually average metres per carry as opposed to average metres per game (my mistake). Which suggests he's either shipping the ball on more quickly or is being wrapped up more rapidly than earlier in the season. There are some very plausible reasons as to why this might be the case - by no means all of them indicative of deteriorating form. I'd be interested in reading views of this as I haven't seen all the games in which he's featured.

Sorry, I think I'm having a thick day

You can't remember me disagreeing that Buderus had won us certain games on his own last year?

I cant remember seeing any threads about it.

Its an interesting point of analysis. Even meters per carry can be a bit sketchy. A lot depends on how the stat is worked out, is it every time he touches the ball? If so, many of his carrys will gain 0m. If its only counted when he actually runs with the ball then it may indicate that he is not choosing the runs correctly, or that the platform is not being laid by others. I'm generally of the opinion that hookers rely to a large extent on his team mates winning their collisions, and allowing him a quick play. It could be that with the various injuries in the pack that our forwards are not performing as strongly as they were earlier in the season. I'd be interested in seeing the same stats for Diskin to see if there is a general pattern.

I think its disrespectful to say that any player won a game on their own. Tey may have had a big influence in it, and made some big plays, but there are 16 other players on a team who will all contribute significantly to the result.

That's fair enough, It was after all a year ago, although they were repeated a fair few times after. You see it never stops.