I don't think it would have made a material difference to results or performances either way. Kirke even with a busted rib was still one of the better performers in the pack at the back end of last year.

50-50 call, coach went with the player he thought he could trust to deliver the best performance. The one with the most experience of high-profile games rather than the enthusiastic youngster.

Easy to sit here in hindsight and hypothesise what Singleton might or might not have done. Much like yourself G1, most players get a lot better when they're sat in the stands



See Gotcha, this is two grown-ups having a discussion without having to result to ad hominem derogatory remarks. You really ought to try it some time, when you're grown-up. Bring tvoc along if you want an adult there to help you.

If you say so Andy. I really don't need to stoop that low to dig up your postings on the subject, and cause embarrassment. Suffice to say, there certainly was no subject to, to your post.

Just to be sure though, when did Peacock announce his retirement from representative rugby again? when he did he sign that contract extension you got so disappointed at?

Eloquent defence of McDermott's decision but I think you probably ducked the question. Do you think he made the right decision?

PS, I think the critique of Kirke's playoff performances have been somewhat overblown, you'll not be surprised to learn. They were better but better by his standards.

It's what the internet was invented for. In my defence, there's no "hindsight" from me when it comes to criticising Kirke's selection





How dare you, I resemble that remark.

While no-one (including the coaching staff) could know in advance what Singleton would have offered in the play-offs they could see what he produced in the previous match when given the opportunity. I'd have preferred to see that good form rewarded rather than the giving up of the place to a player (of dubious worth IMO) returning from a self inflicted unnecessary ban.

Do you believe that a Peacock whose footwork had gone, off-load game had gone and generally looks like he's having to make a massive effort to drag his body around the field would have been selected for international representation?

Re the Kirke/Singleton debate: if this is one of the worst decisions McD makes during his tenure he'll have done pretty well.

McDermott's worst decision (so far) was allowing Danny Buderus to leave whilst still under contract without securing an adequate replacement and then compounding that mistake by not securing the Shaun Lunt gift-horse after it fell right into his lap.

Allowing the undisciplined Bailey straight back into the side after Singleton had played a blinder in Leeds' best showing for months the game before was a minor aberration by comparison.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your point, but as a point of detail didn't Bailey's return come at the expense of Alex Foster?

Agree re Bailey but I'd need to know what role GH played in the Lunt/Buderus decisions before criticising McDermott for them. In any case, Lunt was under contract to Hudds. Brown might have been willing to release him but I doubt Anderson would have, given that he's picked him week in, week out since his return. Perhaps it was simply bad luck: Leeds may have thought there was ample time to sort out a deal before being wrong-footed by Brown's unexpectedly-premature departure and replacement by a coach who clearly rates Lunt more highly.

Singleton is a very different type of player to Kirke. It isnt necessarily simply a decision over who you think is the better player, but who you think can do the job you need them to do.

Yep! He has talent and the abilities to be a RL forward

The CEO no doubt has a role to play regarding contracts/salaries but the coach should take the lead on decisions regarding player retention/recruitment.

It was publically stated that Buderus would not be released unless an adequate replacement was found first. I think we all remember what happened next - not a lot before the unexpected availability of a quality replacement appeared from out of the blue or rather out of the claret and gold. The failure was in then capitalising on that slice of good fortune as Lunt made no secret of his wish to join Leeds permanently and IIRC re-iterated the point late last season even after having earned selection for the SL Dreamteam of 2013. =#0000FFAccording to Opta in 2013 he contributed 19 tries for Huddersfield, was their joint second highest try scorer, just about double that of any other hooker in SL last year and come to think of it more than any single player at Leeds for that matter. Meanwhile over at Headingley we're treated to the spectacle of fitting a square peg into a round hole.

he is also a far inferior defender, missing 14 tackles from 329, where as Kirke missed 14 tackles from 583. Singleton also made more errors per carry last year than Kirke.

Whilst i rate Singleton and think he will go on to become a great prop for us, i dont think its crazy to think that McDermott thought that in a run of tight tense games, that keeping it tight and minimising mistakes would leave us with the best chance of squeezing out a result, and as such a safe pair of hands like Kirke would be the better option.

Stop it Smokey. Rational debate which doesn't slaughter the coach is not really approved of here.

Kirke was very good in the last 6 weeks of last year. He deserved his place. His qualities complement players like JP and our game plan. Solid, reliable, few missed tackles ( although he had a patch mid year where he seemingly forgot how to defend), few mistakes. When it comes to making metres I'd rather see JP or Delaney carrying the ball but I thought Kirke ran stronger with broken ribs than at any point previously! Perhaps the pain killers warped his brain as well!

I do struggle to see that Singleton is the finished article and answer to all our forward ills.

He's well on his way, and brings us great energy. But he is still young (props often mature a little slower than other players after all) and remains a little bit error prone in defence and attack.

I think people are seeing what they want to see some of the time. The lad's on the right track and getting better all the time. He still has developing to do though.

I don't think people are getting too carried away with the lad, it's just that many see the fact of when JP does retire we are going to be left with a gaping hole in our front row and go forward, and Singleton has the potential to fill some of that void so the more exposure he gets to the first team the better.Plus, he does seem to be improving all the time.

You only have to watch Saints at the moment to see an example of a player that has grown immeasurably since being cast aside by our club and who im sure would have been a cornerstone of our pack for the next decade if we had stuck with him.

Amor is 26, i dont think he will play another 10 years.

I agree with most of paragraph 1, but he doesn't need to play 60 minutes every week to get enough exposure to the first team. The JP-shaped hole is unfillable, but accepting that it will take 2 men to fill it, Singleton may well be one of them. He has nearly 2 years to grow into that role.

Maybe Amor needed to go somewhere else, there's never a guarantee that a player would develop the same staying in one place. But it may well be that letting him go won't prove a great decision. The proof of that pudding will be in the eating.

I rmeember times when casting Dowes and Carvell aside didn't seem to have been a great idea, but over their careers we won a big shiny bucketload of silverware, so the sum of our suqad building efforts was right, even if not all the details were. Time will tell if that will be the same now. Amor is all of 3 games into his Saints career, and they have flown out of the traps. Long way to go.

Best part of then



if things had been done as they should have been he would have already had a good season under his belt with us too.

Fair enough i would go along with most of that.You are right in that JP is going to be irreplaceable but we do need to identify at least 3 quality props in the next couple of years to take on his graft.Singleton is clearly going to be one, hopefully 2 more will present themselves in due course but it wont be easy.

JP can be replaced but it will take the Clubs to sign off the Super Player Proposal, there are plenty of JPs in the NRL.

Disagree with this. Don't think there are many JP calibre players knocking around anywhere. It's not just his work on the field but his never say die attitude and commitment which make him one of the best players of his generation from either hemisphere

Ideally 2011 would have gone a bit differently. Amor picked to step up instead of signing Ben Cross, Burgess sticks around and Jay Pitts allowed to step up instead of signing Weller Hauraki.

If we were going out now with Peacock, Burgess, Amor, Singleton, Leuluai & Bailey I think we'd be absolutely set.

But we aren't, and there's no point crying over spilt milk.

Jay Pitts would would not be in our team now even if we hadn't signed hauraki (who was a crap signing)
Burgess was always going to go following Sam
And in 2011 Amor didn't look anywhere near good enough. The only mistake with Amor was later not retaining him, but hindsight is wonderful.

Pitts can't even get in Hull team been loaned out to Donny. Pitts never was and never will be a regular super league player.
Amor with hindsight was a mistake but the lad wanted to stay at wakey where he was first choice, which he would not have been at Leeds