is that not a prejudice against the other sides though?
surely every club has equal merits irrespective of past glories?

Saints are up to the stage of looking for tenders for the new ground (a process due to be complete in the next month IIRC) with building work due to start by the end of the year so I am starting to get quietly confident that we will be in the new ground before the next franchises.

As for the other clubs I am not sure how far they are in the process compared to Saints but I would think they are going to struggle to have them complete but would the RFL see them being in the process of being built (building work started not just on paper) as enough for them to get the points needed for the ground?

But in most of the other criteria we will probably get more points than the other teams in need of a new ground anyway which would work in our favour. The ground is only one of the criteria used.

I agree with Gateaux (on a rare occasion

) Saints probably meet all of the criteria except the stadium and the 10 mile rule.

And besides, SL wouldn't be the same without them.

We are hoping to. Our original deadlines were completion by end of 2010, moving in for the start of the 2011 season. That's still the official line. However, we have been delayed by Taylor Wimpey. They are our weak link. They nearly went belly up at the beginning of the year and had they done so, our whole project would have gone down with them. They are still weak and are apparently squealing because they signed up for Knowsley Road at £8 million and at present it is no longer worth that (of course it could be worth twice that next year!). So they don't want to pay it. However, the whole thing cannot happen without that £8 million. Although we are shortly to go out to tender and detailed designs are just completing this month, and although a lot of clearance work has already been completed on our new site thanks to Government money awarded to the project, we are still a long way away from being a safe bet. Tesco is probably the strongest link in the project as they are happily making squillions in profit.

There is a possibility, thanks to the delay, that we may have to find another place to play for the start of the 2011 season because although the official line is complete by 2010 and in by 2011 season, it's not looking that certain.

I know the ones mentioned are not up to much but how the heck does the Bulls stadium pass ?

Hobart Stadium *s*



So, Widnes' plan to get in SL next time around means forsaking Merseyside for the home games and playing their 'home' matches on the other side of the world.

It overall capcity and seating capacity that form the main elements for stadium criteria. Cas, Wakey, Salford, Saints and Celtic don't have enough seats! Bradford... have enough seats, just a shame that they are rather empty these days!

Lets face it, Carnegie stand apart, Headingley is not great when you think about Warrington, Widnes and Wigan's (I know it is not strictly theirs)grounds!

As I understand it the RFL have wrote to all the clubs that did not satisfy the ground criteria, but I think the journo's have focused on Wakey, Cas & Salford because their plans are still a little fluid. I don't think the RFL would be so harsh as to tell these clubs that you need to be in a new ground by 2012, given that is too soon for most, but they need to convince the RFL that real progress has been made. If these club have not secured funds, bought land and signed deals by 2011 then they could be in trouble!

Bulls did not get their B licence (would have been an A licence had it not been for the salary cap breach) on the back of promises for a new/upgraded stadium, unlike most of the others.

Did not need to.

Regardless of the obvious shortcomings of Odsal, it passed on ground capacity (a full point for that) , and scored much better than those other grounds on the criteria for assessing the "fit for 21st century competition" second point, which it obviously dropped. Little matters like seating for nearly 8,000, bars and catering and a very good corporate facility with excellent location and road links had a bit to do with that.

Yup. Spot on. More...Peter Hood at our recent Fans' Forum (answering one of my questions) explained that he does not expect the RFL to be so lenient - or taken in (he didn't say) by clubs making promises, next time round. He said he believes that if the RFL do not see big yellow things moving around on site by the time the licence applications go in, they are unlikely to admit the "plans" for Licence application purposes.

Hood said he was very confident that said big yellow things will be moving around at Odsal well before then (not that it's as crucial for us, although we are heading to dropping three points and only recovering one next time on other issues) - and they'll need to be, given that about a million tonnes of hardcore is supposed to be being dumped in the hole!

Its a joke!

Since the SL era began Cas & Wakey have been 'warned' of the need to improve their facilities but neither club has done anything about it. Now they want to blame the current economic downturn for the last 13 years of neglect!!!

Maybe RFL warnings should be turned into demands

That was the impression the RFL were keen to give at the time of the licenses being awarded twelve months ago, whether they can maintain that position in twelve months time will be an entirely different matter with the words 'credit crunch' and 'global recession' among others not very far away.

I think that 'neither club' has done anything about it when you talk about Cas and Wakey is harsh mate.

As I understand it, Cas have just agreed a transfer of land assets with Wakefield MDC and it looks like it will be developed along with a new swimming pool for Castleford to give the site 7 day a week viability. I do know they are looking at a site close to Xscape, which is great idea and they have a developer on board.

Wakey and Wakefield MDC of course spent a lot of money and effort on their plans for their new stadium in Thornes Park but this was always controversial and has had to be dropped for various reason including the fact that it was not likely to win a planning appeal to the Secretary of State! Wakefield MDC has no choice but to scrap the plans. They now have plans with Wakefield and a developer for a site close to Junction 30 of the M62 on the old Newmarket Colliery site and Sir Rodney is heading things up.

They both need to move things along but they have both been let down by Wakefield MDC (although generally not in a malicious way) who have the problem of trying to support 3 pro-clubs, two of which are in SL!

That's the key, the licences given to Castleford, Wakefield and Salford were effectively conditional on them moving into new stadia.

With the Salford one having hit the buffers due to financial problems of one of the development partners and the other two still at very early stages the RFL won't be taking promises come 2011 - a stadium is either there or it isn't.

...or bringing their existing ones up to standard, but they all did say they were moving into new grounds and you are right about the RFL. I feel sorry for all of the clubs because they have not sat on their hands and poor old Wakey got so close and then it had to be pulled... although it was the wrong site IMO.

The problem they have now is that the developers want to build houses on the old grounds and no one is building houses at the moment, so tvoc is correct, this could be a problem!

I think it would be harsh to kick any club out because fo their stadium plans falling through if it's been out of their control.
Imo the RFL have to take ALL the reasons into account and if that means partnerships been broken or finances reduced because of the current climate then i don't see how the can use that to ditch a club out of the league!!!

It is harsh I agree, but they've been lucky the RFL has been so soft with them. Far too much money is wasted on bulls**t and false promises.

The initial SL licences were issued in 1996 on the provison that where clubs were failing in a specific criteria, action would be taken. 13 years on and (whether they've talked/planned or not) neither club is in a position to confirm for definate they will have adequate faclilities anytime soon.

Widnes were the only club to take immediate action with regards to their ground, using money that would otherwise have afforded them a squad good enough to compete in SL. Cas & Wakey appear to have done the opposite.

I hope the RFL toughen up as Widnes have been shafted by the RFL, a complete injustice IMO.

With regards to Wakefield MDC having to support 3 clubs ambitions, yes it is a problem. Maybe the initial SL suggestion of Cas, Fev & Wakey merging wasn't so daft after all, at the very least why can't they share a ground?

Not sure I agree.

Yes it is harsh, but these teams can't remain in the competition when there are better suited candidates elsewhere.

But what is the point of them having the criteria if they are then going to ignore them? And if you were from a club who had gone all out to ensure that you did meet the criteria yet a team that doesn't was kept in and you were refused a place wouldn't that be harsh aswell?

The RFL has to be seen to be making an effort to improve standards.

It wouldn't surprise if these letters were nothing more than idle threats.

Cas and Wakey should be made to groundshare in a purpose built stadium between the two towns, why should their council stump up for two seperate grounds? It makes no sense.

As a Cas fan I do agree with you as it makes economic sense and common sense too.

Indeed, if it works in the NRL and all that...

AC and Inter Milan share too.