Of course Buderus was aggressive, he was on the front foot and made strong tackles infront of the gain line (you don't have to punch people to be aggrssive in rugby). Liam Hood is in his 20's, he's physically ready. Countless players have been brought into the team at this stage and have flourished - countless others have been loaned out recently and then disapeared.

And I'm glad you appreciate my definition of a hooker, anything to help Brian

But I would also add, it you really want to play a half back at 9 then make him a [ibig[/i one like Roby or ...cough...Lowes.

Because thats the business model, it works too, people still pay money for season tickets in the belief that their world will end if they don't.

Does anyone buy a season ticket for The Vue and go to watch every film every week including the ones they don't like ?

Never underestimate the loyalty of your typical sports fan. They keep shelling out the cash, even when their brain tells them they're not getting anything close to value for money.

A season ticket failed to provide value for money when it started offering the equivalent of 2 games free. The last time I purchased a season ticket, there were 15 home games and the season ticket price was the equivalent of paying for 9 and getting 6 games free.

He's doing a pretty good job considering the squad of players he has available to him. I'm sure he'll coach the team to a position lofty enough on the SL ladder to secure a home game in week 1 of the playoffs

Leeds Rhinos are up against it all season because they’re the current Super League and World Club Champions meaning that other teams really get themselves up to play against Leeds. I’m happy as long as Leeds Rhinos play well a couple of times during the season just to give me a glimpse of what to come at the end of the season and in important games. If they win trophies then great.

Brian McDermott has certainly earned his place off the back off a great Challenge Cup run and Super League grand final win last year along the World Club Challenge this year. The current playing standards aren’t pretty at Leeds but you could say that for most of the other super league teams too. Is Brian McDermott and his like responsible for that as well?



I’m around but just keeping a low profile

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for all your replies!

Tvoc – Again, the stats don’t tell the story. Of the 10 rankings you give, 5 of those were outside the play-off places, so not as good as you would have me believe. McDermott’s first season was in 2006 (albeit not a full season), but the Club began to undergo major changes from as soon as 2007 with Ian Lenagan retaining his London shares and yet becoming owner of Wigan. This would suggest to me that Mac did not perhaps have the backing to build the team that he would have liked as no financial investment was made. Several of their key players, such as Henry Paul, were allowed to leave the Club and were never replaced, and then in addition to this they had a number of injuries to key players such as Henry Fa’afilli. With all the success we’ve had over the last 8 years, I am confident that the Club will continue to invest in our team, so the coming years do not concern me at all.

In terms of the 2011 fixtures against Warrington, Wigan and Saints that you quote, I have to admit disappointment in you. The results against Warrington at home and Saints away certainly add some drama to your statistics but we played really well against Wigan at home, losing only in the dying minutes, and we should have beaten them away when Danny McGuire scored (Stuart Cummings publicly admitted that this try should have been awarded). We were also very competitive in the Saints game at home for about 60 minutes, but again a disappointing last 20 lost it for us. We may have lost to Warrington twice in the League, but our performance in the play-offs was outstanding; we won when it mattered. I’m going to repeat myself here tvoc – the stats do not tell the story.

Nantwichexile – I’d be interested to know how many of Webb’s penalties have actually been for dissent, do you know? I thought most were through “sloppy technical offences”.

DHM - Again, thanks for the patronising definition of aggressive. Liam Hood may be 20, but that doesn’t mean he’s physically ready (to be honest, I find that logic a bit strange). You don’t hit an age and suddenly magically become physically ready to deal with older, more experienced players who are ready to batter you – it takes practise and experience which he won’t have had in the under-20s. I also mention above that you have to be mentally able to cope with the change and again, this isn’t something which magically happens overnight, it takes time and experience and I fully believe that with the promise he shows, we SHOULD give him that time. When I talk about bringing players in from the under-20s I talk about phasing them in and for all your patronising, you haven’t been able to tell me why I should change my mind on this.

Finally, some of you have talked about the fans forking out to watch sub-par rugby and whether or not we should cheer the team on. I’m going to reiterate my point that this Club has given us some fantastic memories over the last few years, and frankly I’ll be running off that for a long time to come. I know it’s disappointing to see what we’re seeing at the moment, but who wants to be the one to say “yeah, I didn’t go to the games in the back half of the season after we lost to Wigan and Warrington, but I went to the Cup Final and Old Trafford”. For me personally, I want the right to say at the Final that I WAS there for those games (I'm no early '00s Bulls fan!!) We are SUPPORTERS and we should do just that – SUPPORT. 10 years ago the fans turned up win or lose and I would like to think that most of us will do that now (as I know most of you will).

Some great points - like anything, it never seems such good value for money when we're losing games but considering the success we've had over the past few seasons it's very harsh to start throwing in the towel now on the back of a mediocre mid season slump.

As for McDermott, I remember speaking to some fans after last years Grand Final win who will still wanted him to get the boot - I'm not sure what some fans are expecting tbh



Slightly OT but some of the posts on the Rhinos Facebook page really do reek of the typical arm chair fans who rant to sack the coach but can't back it up with a valid reason nor explanation as to how it would help us for the rest of the season. I think it's just an easy option to blame the coach if i'm honest. It was nice the majority of travelling support last friday were behind the team and coaching staff, and that they recognise the best way to get out of this current slump is through support rather than needless panic and personal attacks.

You have to factor 'hope' into your reasoning. People keep shelling out the cash in the hope of getting value for money.

I'd like to add to all of this (and apologise of it's already been mentioned...) the fact that I'm getting sick and tired of seeing the word "McDumbnut" and other variations of it on these pages. If people don't like the coach and want rid, fair enough - that's their opinion, but do we really need to resort to abusiveness towards a bloke who clearly cares a lot about his job and the club, and is doubtlessly working hard to try and get teh best results for the club? In this particular instance, whether he is "good enough" or not is irrelevant - he comes across as a very decent bloke, and taking the pi$$ out of his name is bang out of order.

Depends upon how you define value.

There is an emotional attachment with being a supporter that you cannot compare with other commodities.

But there's also the social aspect. For me, I've been going to the rugby with my son since about 1995. It's something we do together and it's something we enjoy. I also meet other friends and acquaintances at the match. Some I only now see there. We catch up, chat about the rugby, maybe have a whinge. To be honest, the 80 minutes on the pitch is only a small part of my day/night out.

The are other posters on this forum who meet up in groups and make rugby a large part of their social life. You have been involved in a few yourself in the past. In this age of social retardation brought about by facebook. twitter and internet message boards I think it's a damn good thing. What if Lawrie, for example, refused to see his mates, meet them for a pint until Leeds started winning again?

But, hey, maybe I am a sapp. Maybe life would be better if I sat alone in the dark in front of a computer screen laughing at the silly fools parting with their cash to go out and watch a game of rugby. How clever and superior would I be then?

Some people can't seem to grasp that fans still go because they actually still enjoy the occasion of turning up for a match, the getting ready at home, the making your way to Headingley, having a pre-match drink with your mates (some you might only see at the rugby) talking about the rugby and having a bit of banter about other topics, getting there just in time perhaps to catch the end of a Under 20's game and seeing if anyone catches your eye, the excitment of the warm-up and wondering who is in the starting line-up for both sides and how are we going to play, the opera guy singing Volare, 80 mins of rugby action (which i guess must not excite some people as much as spending their Friday nights at home playing Scrabble instead whilst listening to the game on the radio) following by a post match discussion/debate/drink with your friends or family members.

Just because they don't enjoy it anymore they have to come out with suggestions that those who do must be 'brainwashed', 'clueless' or 'fickle'. Perhaps they need this to feel better about the fact others still get an enjoyment out the sport that they no longer do themselves. I've always found it ludicrous that 'fans' complain that players (who are the ones who spend their lives training, recovering from the injuries and batterings their bodies take, and competing in one of the toughest sports) are criticised because they 'owe' fans performances because said 'fan' has in return gone to the much harder trouble of 'turning up and handing over £20'.

Some i'm sure will try counter this with 'well they wouldn't have a wage if it wasn't for us', yes but you wouldn't of got many a great occasion over the years of watching RL from their hugely demanding physical efforts, and i don't and never will feel any sort of 'ownership' of players just because i spend money towards the club, if that was the case then i guess i also partly 'own' my local supermarket, corner shop and chinese takeaway. I've never paid anything towards Leeds Rhinos because i've felt force to, i do because i want to, unfortunately some can't seem to accept this is possible but that highlights more of a problem with them than it does myself or anyone else of the same view.

Finally some sense in the last couple of posts.
It always confuses me when I read people on here saying "god I feel sorry for the season ticket holders".
It's not an obligation to buy one, it's as much about the social aspect as it is the rugby, the enjoyment dosen't just come from whether we get the 2 league point or not.

Ok 'Brian' let me repeat maybe I am just having a bad day at the office (again damn it) but I feel nowt but doom n gloom at t' moment with recent and ongoing events.

I would hope the club might now be showing signs of valuing the likes
of Amor/ Singleton/ D.Smith above the likes of Kirke/Moore/Lleulai and yes even Peacock.
The future is surely more important than continuing to support crumbling and/or average-at-best, antique incumbents (despite their past achievements) ?

Losing is fine (yes we were unlucky to have Danny's try disallowed at Wigan last year) as long as we show some competitive 'fight'.
This season, were Saints (Langtree), Wigan (Headingley), Warrington (Halliwell Jones, in the first 25 mins) fair examples of this ? I was pretty embarrassed as a supporter. The performance of Bradford at Easter was pretty abysmal too.



You can't deny Hall has been wasted on attack and that Hardaker is not best suited to the left with his step off the left/inability to pass to his left. Get him on the right or, of course, at FB ...OR even switch him with Hall (during the match at least). That might get a few defences nervous.

Most of all get some go forward in the pack and control that bluddy ruck.

Taking the pi$$ out of his name. Christ (oops!) what a crime. Lighten up. Personally I think 'McDumbnut' was quite inspired.

There's a difference between outright unthinking brainless abuse and some choice, funny comments that I have usually found on here.

Each to their own. I personally think he's earnt a level of respect higher than that. As a teacher I hear 11/12 year old kids use similar nicknames on a daily basis - I would have hoped that supposed "adults" on here would be above such things. Obviously not...

Some people are easily impressed...

... i'm surprised you're not more happy with our performances!

I agree!! Now shut up SandwichExile!

I guess I don't take life (and certainly not sport) too seriously ....yeah it's good to win and yeah I would like to see some new talent, but losing and seeing the same old faces is no more than an irritation that can be easily alleviated by the greater demands and pleasures in life that my wife (and watching clouds) offer.



I enjoy coming on here to wind some people up and because, generally, there are lots of worthwhile comments to read from a collection of pretty erudite and eloquent people. I do wish they would learn how to use the apostrophe though

Whilst i wouldn't personally do stuff like calling anyone McDumbnut, i've seen Nantwich has always posted in a light hearted way with no malice or aggression in the way he writes or in his views so he's not exactly the worst culprit, some of whom have posted about McDermott and/or players with some real OTT venom.

Nantwichexile - I could not disagree with you more about the forwards. We were right to loan out Amor and Singleton - Amor had a chance with us and came across as OK at best, so to loan him to Wakefield gives him some game time and helps him develop (hopefully to return). He looks good at Wakefield but someone else has pointed out, and I have to agree, that everyone raises their game aganst Leeds and I would be concerned with him that he can't handle that intensity. Singleton will be immense when he is ready, but let me repeat MYself by emphasising how important it is to phase young players in (please see my several comments above). I agree I would like to see him play a couple of games for us though this half of the season. The future IS important but Singleton and the likes will be better players for learning from Leuluai, Peacock and Moore. Both Leuluai and Peacock have been loyal servants to our Club, still play well and are capable of more, why would we drop them? Richard Moore, as I mention in my original post, has been great for us this year - he often makes three or four tackles in a row, can make a great offload, and attracts good numbers from opposition defence. You haven't really offered any justification for your views that these three need dropping, but I would agree that Kirke has been off the boil for a while now.

So we've had some disappointing performances this season, and you name 3 games where we had 80 minutes of rubbish. What about the World Club Challenge? Salford away? Warrington at home? Catalans at home? We've had some quality performances this year too, so let's have some balance.

I agree we haven't seen the best of Hally, and I'm going to repeat myself AGAIN about Hardaker - he's not been playing his best of late, but this is his first full season!

I completely agree with Hyperbolicrhino - a coach who has led us to 3 finals in a year, winning 2 of them, has earnt a higher level respect than to be name called. I have no problem with humorous comments in general but the comments and names are personal and insulting, nobody gave Tony Smith or Brian McClennan any names like that.

Fantastic, another insecure poster who sees disagreement as being "patronising". You said Buderus wasn't aggresive, I disagreed. He's a front foot defender who moves up to hit people - that's what an aggresive defender does. If you are feeling patronised by my opinion that's your problem.
As for Hood, I could give you a list as long as you like of players who have been fully established first team players by the time they were 20 or much much younger. I believe we should develop Hood at Leeds, but maybe he will actually learn more from the coaching at another club at the moment.

DHM - I don't find your disagreement patronising, just your need to define positions and vocabulary for me; if we do disagree, that doesn't mean my understanding of the hooking role or aggression is necessarily different, it just means we see things differently. I think I've been more than fair in what I've said in my posts without being personal (I hardly think anyone could call me insecure).

You seem to have missed the point a little bit with Hood - the age is not the point, of course we've had players who've been well established by the time they were 20, but they were brought through gradually; rarely have we had a player who's been thrown in the deep end and had a long, successful, consistently good-performing career with us.

No, I don't agree with you. Don't assume that's because I don't understand what you're saying - that would be patronising.