I'm certain that the club has used Alred in the past - for Sinfield.
Wasn't Alred also a kicker in the NFL for a brief period?

[urlhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qClWlvA-WLQ[/url

Never heard of Dave Alred but a quick google brought up this very good video

He was, he's also done some sports psychology stuff with Luke Donald in the past.

the earliest stats i could find on superleague website (regular rounds only) show

Sinfield, 2003: 100 goals kicked, 35 missed = 74%
which is about average for a good goalkicker i think?

compared with last years
Sinfield, 2014: 74 goals kicked, 21 missed = 78%

and this years (so far)
Sinfield, 2015: 45 goals kicked, 7 missed = 86%

just for comparison, at the minute Sutcliffe is about 63% this year (from a really small sample size), but i'd guess he wouldnt have expected to be first choice goal kicker quite so much this year

The Leigh Halfpenny video is good too.
He's now probably the most accurate kicker in RU.

Alred started off in League, though you would be hard pressed to find much written evidence of it.

Sinfield, IIRC did a lot of work with Jon Callard when he was at Leeds Tykes, rather than Wilkinson. He was certainly criticised in some quarters during his early years when he was less consistent. I'm not saying Sutcliffe will ever be the answer but to write him off at such a young age is wrong as well. I'm surprised that Hardaker hasn't done it this year though - think he's ahead of Sutcliffe at the moment.

Maybe because Hardakers long term prospects at the club looked a bit shaky at the start of the season

IMV both Hardaker & Sutcliffe should be spending time on their goalkicking.
Anything to improve your value to the team & to increase your attractiveness to other teams if it doesn't work out at your current club.

I considered that, but that would almost be like letting Sutcliffe kick instead of Sinfield at times. Another reason might be that he is often the person who fields the next kick off and it was a more difficult transition whereas Kev only has to wander back to the 40. I guess if there isn't much to choose between them then exploring Sutcliffe as an option makes sense.

Do you think that being a good goal kicker is one of the attributes being considered for the rumoured new halfback signing that GH wants?

Pat Richards had only kicked 4 goals before he got the job at Wigan, he didn't do so badly. There may have been some talent there, but constant practice helped too.

Practice and coaching can make an average goalkicker into a top one. Henry Paul never kicked goals until he joined us. He has most of the club records for it now.

Ive never understood why, if you were a young player looking to make you way in the game you would spend hours becoming an outstanding goal kicker. It seems a relatively easy way to not only differentiate yourself, but can make an otherwise 'good' player, indispensable.

Agree with that. It's also something you can do a lot of on your own time.

"With enough practice, virtually anyone can do it" Hmmm, yes they can, but to what standard? If your theory was anywhere near conceivable, every single team would have a player with the same success rate as Sinny, it's clearly a flawed theory. Sinfield has a God given talent, he's also practiced damn hard, but never the less he is a better kicker than most others through sheer talent. What you preach when applied to the golf world would suggest that any man prepared to put enough hours in could be the next Tiger Woods, completely unrealistic. What about darts ?, a little board no more than a few feet away, surely we could all win millions if only we put the practice in? It's just not that simple. Don't you think that all Superleague clubs that struggle to find a consistently good kicker would just choose one and make him practice relentlessly till he never missed ? The next time you're playing golf with hopelessly bad mate, just tap him on the shoulder and tell him another twenty hours down the line he'll be a scratch golfer.

It isn't a flawed theory. It's pretty much modern sport. Read some books on modern athletes. Especially 'Outliers'. It's almost universally accepted that the basis of the 10,000 hours rule holds true.

Kicking, especially, is a physical action. It isn't creative in any way. You don't need to have vision or decision-making etc as you would for say a half to unlock a defence. Of course some people find some things easier than others. Which might mean they have to do less practice than someone who found it harder to reach the same level.
Then of course it comes down to the quality of the practice. Which is where your kicking coaches come in. And would assist with any issues.

But kicking a rugby ball off a cone and through some posts doesn't require any special ability or talent. Just a special amount of dedication and practice.

Why don't all teams do it? Because it takes a lot of extra practice and they might well prioritise other areas. Leeds are also unique (in my opinion) in having a player like Sinfield at the club as a major part of the team for such a long time. Most other clubs have much more flux in their players and so may be unwilling to commit their player to large amounts of extra practice that won't pay off for a long time.

The counter to your argument is that somehow some people are born with the natural talent to perform an unnatural and manufactured action ( goal kicking) and somehow, despite the very small talent pool RL picks from, players like Sinfield, Eaton, El-Masri etc have made their way through. Which would seem very strange that nature had decided that some babies would be born with the natural ability to kick a ball in a fashion that wasn't even used when they were born.

It seems infinitely more likely that those players are born with the kind of mental skills that means they effectively "enjoy" kicking and they practiced bloody hard at it. Otherwise Sinfield wouldn't have needed the help of coaches like Alred.

Do you believe that psychology has no part whatsoever? Kicking a goal on a practice field can in no way be the same as kicking it in a Grand Final, from a touchline, with 70,000 people watching and the result depending upon the outcome of the kick.

Of course. But you can train mental skills too. It just takes time and dedication. The same as the physical skills.

Again, some people will find these skills easier to learn than others. But to just say Sinfield is a good kicker because he was born that way is wrong in my opinion. Some people may be naturally more athletic/academic/composed/intravert/extrovert etc etc but the real differentiating factor between Sinfield and other kickers is the amount and quality of practice he puts in to goal kicking. He can be regularly seen at Kirkstall practicing after training.

So you are suggesting with the correct training Jamie Peacock could be as good a kicker as Kevin Sinfield!! Seriously I think you omit natural ability/propensity to perform certain skills.

Jonny Wilkinson as a kid, even when told to rest would practice kicking accuracy in his own living room with bog roll as a ball and goal posts constructed from more bog roll cello taped together. He'd spend hours trying to imitate a perfect conversion by Gavin Hastings on top of practicing goal kicking every night at his local rugby club.

His autobiography gives a great insight into how dedicated you need to become one of the best goal kickers in the world. Well worth a read and Dave Alred features quite a bit too.

Yes, of course. Why not? What part of the physical action of performing a goal kick would prevent Jamie Peacock from doing so?


No I don't. I've mentioned that in virtually every post I've made on this thread. Again, some people find things easier than other people. BUT the differentiating factor between the likes of Sinfield and other kickers is the amount and quality of practice he puts in. Which is exactly the same as any other elite athlete or sportsman.

I bet Catalans & Warrington both wish they had a kicker as effective as Sinfield.
Or even Brough!!

Or Riddy.

You've not done a smiley after your this post so I'm assuming you're serious ? Your argument has been blown away over the Magic Weekend. Having watched two of the top teams in Wigan and Warrington persist with totally inadequate kickers, I'm guessing you will offer your expertise to Shaun Wane and Tony Smith, " just make them practice more". Let me know what they say when you have had your eardrums repaired. Matty Smith will never be Pat Richards and Stevan Ratchford will never be Lee Briers. Matty Smith is not as strong as Richards off the tee, this has two major drawbacks. Firstly he cannot attempt kicks from as far out, and secondly, he has to compromise his angle of conversion from the touch line due to his lack of strength. That allied to his inconsistency and lack of ability mean he will cost them points forever more. I'm laughing at the thought of Shaun Wane's face when you offer your kicking guru's advice of "more practice".