I agree with all of this although personally I think it's the combined loss of Sinfield and Peacock that is the biggest factor, tbh Leuluai was only a bit player last season albeit an effective one.
Hardaker shows time after time that he is not a ball player, great defensively and tries a little too hard on attack. Some of his line busts are brilliant but far too many see him running into the big men and losing possession. Once he gets this under control then he will be one of, if not the best FB in the country

No I am not saying Hardaker to the wing as Golding's introduction should be gradual and not rushed but he does show more creative class and as you say could play in the halves.. Who knows Zak may develop into a good attacking player.

Sutcliffe has the size for centre and has a running game. Again he should be allowed some time to see which position suits the team best,

Does Sutcliffe have enough pace to be a decent centre?

I'm totally bemused that fans still say stuff like Hardaker just isn't a ball player.........

Our best creative player was "just a support player". With no real passing and/or kicking games. He also couldn't defend.

Hardaker IMO has about another 4 years to develop as passing game (by all accounts he has a pretty good kicking game) then he will have about 6 seasons as a stand off or ball playing fullback.

are people really arguing that Burrow hasnt got a place a 'anymore' two games in to the season after he was an absolutely integral part of a treble winning season.

I dont know how much more conclusively people can be proven wrong, and still put forward the same trite argument. We have had 12 unbelievably successful years with Burrow in the defensive line. Its pretty obvious that whatever frailties are there can be covered.

Perhaps burrow needs to be first man in history to win 3 Harry Sunderland trophies as 2 MOM and 7 championship medals are bit run of mill. Alan Tait, Andy Farrell, Sir Kev and Burrow have 2 each. Not bad company to be in. he gets exposed a bit when we can't play a proper a hooker for any part of game. Answer is play a hooker and have burrow in the team.

Leeds knew Warrington had done a deal though and we're trying to work with them to get Clark to come to Headingley instead, they weren't blindly just talking to Cas oblivious to Warrington's involvement.

We have Watkins and moon at centre we don't need to try and play Sutcliffe there and confuse the kid even more or play him at hooker

It is only really Gotcha who is saying Burrow has no place anymore and he's been waiting to scapegoat Burrow and McGuire in 2016. Even those of us who aren't keen on him starting at hooker are quite happy with him coming off the bench.

Add in Handley coming through and being a potential centre in time. Depends on if Watkins gets lured away to RU and what Moon's plans are regarding staying in England or eventually returning to Australia someday.

I agree about him not playing centre as his vision and creativity would be somewhat wasted imo
Hooker I think is a better option in the future, he is big enough for the defensive work and if Lilly and Golding emerge as quality halves then that could be the solution a couple of years away- don't forget that Cameron Smith played his first season at 7
However for this season we should play him at 6 as he and Mcguire combined really well last year and at 19 it would be a bit silly to put unnecessary pressure on Lilly who should start playing more often off the bench and start when Mcguire or Sutcliffe are injured

I see different season, and still making things up?

I haven't said that. We were talking about starting 13, and Him but a clear point down. The way the game has changed there is not a place for Burrow in a starting 13. He is neither a good enough scrum half or a good enough hooker. Impact from the bench however, is something completely different. Just read, it is easy enough.

Funniest post ever however is Smokeys. He lambasted a player who was integral to our success last season, yet believes Burrow was.

I am not suggesting we replace who I regard as the best two centres in SL. Simply suggesting that Sutcliffe does not look comfortable or a natural game manager at 6 and perhaps not forceful enough as a 13. IMO his present skill set is possibly best suited as a centre where he may well end up be it due to injuries or transfers.

I do think there is an element of truth in what Printer is saying - I do think you have a bee in your bonnet about McGuire being captain and why your preferred candidate has been overlooked.

On Burrow - I thought he and McGuire had a much greater influence on the outcomes at the back end of the season than either Sinfield or Peacock.

Well you would wouldn't you, considering the comment is about your love child. However this wasn't about McGuire, who yes I think the club have made a massive error in making captain, but of course have always maintained his position in the side. And contrary to what you are alluding to I have voiced no preferred candidate, and would just have liked the club to have followed the principle of Sinfield, young, growing with team, and set right example. If I am honest, the best fit is Ward, but he is out injured anyway at present.




That's just laughable that. They still didn't organise and manage the team to the success it had, they played off the back of that. That's not influence that is opportunism, and good luck to them for that.

I am not disagreeing with your rationale, I think Ward will make a great captain - but most on here no what's coming - if Sinfield had been on the field this would happened, McGuire's not a leader etc.

McGuire had a lot of influence on what happened on the field as did Burrow to suggest they didn't is really laughable. McGuire orchestrated many of the important plays that made the difference between success and failure of the season. That is not opportunism that's game strategy - you only have to listen to his comments about the play at Huddersfield!!

Youve said the club made a massive error in appointing mcguire as captain but have offered no viable alternative? JJB and Stevie ward weren't viable due to their long term injuries, so I see It as the club have chosen the next person who has been a major part of the successful last decade and hope that he can transition those values to the 'new squad'. To argue the point you make you must at least have a realistic alternative.

I did read correctly, you just worded your post very poorly.....



No separation between starting or subs bench, just that he isn't suited to the modern game.



Agree with that, a couple of posters really undervalued just how good Aiton was for us last year.

There seems to be a couple of posters that really undervalued just how good Burrow was for us last year too!

When he had a sustained run at 6 prior to injury with Mags at 7 he looked every bit and performed like a natural 6 so who how you come to him not looking comfortable at 6 i don't know nor do i see it.
Onto him not being a natural game manager just how many times has he had to fill that role at 1st team level for you to come that conclusion?
It's a new year whilst a big transition is taking place amidst a mounting injury list so far too early to be suggesting such things no?
Gotcha-Re Mags just watch the games he played with Sutty was at 6 he directed the team then and during the play offs not only that he was "THE GO TO MAN" in the GF

There have been fans undervaluing just how good Burrow has been for us for 15 years.

He was good, for the last 3 rounds. Rest of the year he was either ok or not really needed.

he wasnt too bad in this game either www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/33740479, or when busting open the game and scoring his 200th try for leeds against Hull in the super 8s, or you know, when he was part of the side that won the CC final by a record margin, or when he basically won the first game against Wigan for us with an unbelievable dummy from acting half.

he wasnt too bad in this game either www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/33740479, or when busting open the game and scoring his 200th try for leeds against Hull in the super 8s, or you know, when he was part of the side that won the CC final by a record margin, or when he basically won the first game against Wigan for us with an unbelievable dummy from acting half.

We do sometimes see a performance from a different angle be it player or coach don't we?

Yes he put in some good individual performances during theses 6 games but that was in a table topping side and despite this he did not show me he has the personality to constantly go looking for the ball and take control of a game. He may well grow into the position and I have argued youngsters should be given time, however to date he looks a bit too reserved and can disappear for chunks of a game. These are not the traits I look for in a half back or game manager. Contrast that with young Lilley who in much fewer appearances has show a willingness to get his hands on the ball and take responsibility.

With Mags injured Sutcliffe has to play but when he returns I would like to see him partnered with Lilley for a spell, unless of course we see a big improvement from Sutty.

However just my opinion on what I have seen so far.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"he wasnt too bad in this game either www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/33740479, or when busting open the game and scoring his 200th try for leeds against Hull in the super 8s, or you know, when he was part of the side that won the CC final by a record margin, or when he basically won the first game against Wigan for us with an unbelievable dummy from acting half.'" Yep like I said, he was ok at times during the year......can see you have to scrape the barrel by mentioning the cup final.....we were what 4/5 scores clear before he even came on? At least I can say Burrow had his good moments, your evaluation of Aiton that "anybody" could've done what he did is ridiculous. He was probably the favourite for the Dream Team hooker before his injury.

Quote ="SmokeyTA"he wasnt too bad in this game either www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/33740479, or when busting open the game and scoring his 200th try for leeds against Hull in the super 8s, or you know, when he was part of the side that won the CC final by a record margin, or when he basically won the first game against Wigan for us with an unbelievable dummy from acting half.'" Yep like I said, he was ok at times during the year......can see you have to scrape the barrel by mentioning the cup final.....we were what 4/5 scores clear before he even came on? At least I can say Burrow had his good moments, your evaluation of Aiton that "anybody" could've done what he did is ridiculous. He was probably the favourite for the Dream Team hooker before his injury.