Amazed so many going for Achurch as a first 13 player , 2 good games in a season he still has a lot to prove to me , very lazy at marker defence for a start. As for Stevie Ward making the 17 for some i just do not see anything in him at the moment , i know the lad has had horrific injury problems but what are his supposed strenghts

Maybe BJB is wandering why he chose to go to Salford in order to play FB when they have signed Locke?

Well the point I made was that he didn't and hasn't picked players who've have injury worries AHEAD of a match more often this year.....you then switched it to say I can't say McDermott has learnt because someone wasn't subbed mid-match even though he clearly could still contribute to the game.

You also clearly contradicted yourself saying we'll never know if Ablett would've missed Wakey had he been subbed earlier, but then saying the decision to keep him out there has led to him being on the sidelines.

I know a few were saying Locke might end up in he halves but earlier this week I read that he DOES want to play at FB, so definitely no gig there for BJB barring injuries. Salford will be better for it, as an opposition fan next year I'd rather see the teamsheet read BJB at FB than on the wing.

............................

Regarding Briscoe, he'd still be in my plans to be first choice come playoff time after dropping him for a few games to hopefully kick him up the backside. The backs started this year focused knowing they were fighting for places, especially Briscoe, he's lost that drive since BJB was announced to be going.

I should imagine Locke does not come cheap, nor BJB ,with salford already having Hock, Morley and Chase they must be near the salary cap ceiling.
Or is the good doctor indulging in some creative accountancy?.

Except longer term, the club see Handley as a centre rather than a winger.

Duckworth can't even get in the London team, so he's gone at the end of the season I would guess. Which leaves 1-5 in the squad numbers, and then the likes of Keinhorst and Minns behind.

Don't particularly rate young McDermott in the 19s at the moment, so if there is still going to be some competition for the wing spots someone else is going to have to be brought in IMO.

I agree that BJBs game has been off but his issues have been at full back. Poor kick fielding, positioning and defence. None of these issues will affect him as a winger and I think he and Watkins work far better together. Also, his two tries the last two games have been moments of brilliance in otherwise poor performances.

On the other hand I think Briscoe (who I do think overall is the better of the two) has been average since the first four games.

I don't disagree with you on Briscoe, but when Hall was playing cr@p, and he was, the excusing statement was the amount of yardage he does for the team. Despite Briscoe not excelling, his work rate on yardage made is still top class. BJB can not match that on wing.

Couldn't agree more G1
IMO BJB will never be a full back due to his frailties defending kicks and also being a poor defender and he is without a doubt a winger IMO


His poor defending of kicks and whilst being on the wing caused us some problems in the 2011 GF against Saints i recall
We had to endure a mountain of defense to keep the Saints at bay due to his poor handling skills of a simple kick towards him

BJB is a great running winger and offensively he is as good as any in SL but defensively i wince when he is challenged with diffusing kicks irrespective of which position he is playing

Hall was achieving much more than Briscoe during his "iffy" run at the years start regarding yardage made,

Hall season start
Vs HKR - 93m
Vs Wire - 145m
Vs Catalans - 154m
Vs Hudds - 133m
Vs London - 135m
Vs Saints - 163m
Vs Wakey - 169m

Total = 992m.....141.7m average (during the same period Briscoe averaged 142.4m)

Briscoe of late
Vs Cas - 87m
Vs Hull - 114m
Vs Wire - 124m
Vs Hudds - 70m
Vs Widnes - 164m
Vs Catalans - 85m
Vs Wakey - 89m

Total = 733m.......104.7m average (during the same period Hall has averaged 151.5m)

Totally agree. BJB is far better on the wing than FB.
But with Chase thinking he runs the show it seems like Locke will stay at FB with BJB in his least favourite position on the wing or maybe at centre.
Briscoe needs "resting" as does McGuire.
Two winable games coming up that I think we could easily lose.
By season end I see us in our favoured position of 5th.

Briscoe has offered nothing for weeks and please do not try and compare him to Hall as he is and always has been a million miles away from his level

Why are you comparing Briscoe of late with Hall beginning of season. Why have you also missed out the more important stat of metres per carry? It is widely accepted we constantly go left and therefore more carries from that side.

I wasn't comparing both wingers, I said when one was poor that yardage was an excusing reason to ignore it, and that BJB can not match what Briscoe has done in this regard from the wing.

BJB is what is been compared here. I too think Briscoe needs a wake up call. I just think the yardage made, if it was relevant for one start of year, it should also be considered here.

Because you clearly made the comparison of Hall at the start of the year, it's there on the other page, you alone first brought his name into it. The stats show a significant drop in what he was producing and nowhere near comparable to Hall's alledged 'poor' form (which in reality was a couple of poor readings of kicks).

As for carries, Hall does have more in both periods but then Hall hardly saw the ball in the opposition half for many games this year and we don't exactly spread it too wide in our own half so mostly the higher carry totals come for a higher total of getting involved bringing It away from our line.

It's got nothing to do with early season from Briscoe. He is still putting in good yardage per carry throughout, and that was what I said on the previous page, in relation to could BJB match that. Exactly the same to the reasoning shown for Hall through his poor form.

Having now looked I see Briscoe is averaging 9.41 metres per carry. Funny enough BJB is showing the same, but I suspect that is an annomoly due to the long range efforts from fullback, and it was clearly said from Wing. By contrast Hall is 8.03 metres per carry. It's quite uncanny how very similar Hall and Briscoes stats are when broken down across the whole stats, would never have expected that.

Anyway, it is true that last two games Briscoes metres per carry have dropped below that 9.41, and with dodgy suspect defence in both games, it could be questioned. Three gams ago though he was over 11 metres per carry. Like I said, I too think he needs a wake up call, but either those metres per carry are important or they are not, and that reasoning is the same for whoever the player is.

Stats don't always paint a true picture, at the moment briscoe is not getting the ball a top class winger deserves .
Which should be an overlap or room on the outside situation . This so he can exploit his pace and strength .

This is true, but I am going to focus again on the hard yardage. Is it important or not? it goes unnoticed a lot of the times, and then only brought up when certain scenarios arise. Briscoe makes more yards per carry than any other Leeds player, he plays on the wing not actually given the ball a lot so has to go looking for it. Should he be dropped, could his replacement do that same job?

He was kept on for all of 2 minutes was he not?
Did he miss the Wakey game?
Then it's a clear to see that the injury was bad enough to miss at the very least the wakey game but reading the comments in the YEP the Coach says "he is likely to miss a couple more weeks".
So knowing that are you still going to say there wasn't a better chance of us having him this week or even for next week had he not been subbed?

I'm not saying there was a better chance or not, I (and yourself) don't know the details of Ablett's injury (and whether staying out there made it worst)....

.......and more importantly neither could anyone during the game. It's all very well after the event saying "oh yeah should've brought him off sooner" but McDermott hasn't got the luxury of given him a full check up mid-match and we know RL players are stubborn sods who'll say they're fine during a game. If every coach took off any player who took a knock in the match they'd never finish with 13 guys on the pitch.

Surely you can't be so stubborn to not admit you don't see players (of all teams) takes blow and look hurt at times in games and them carry on playing.....happens just about every game. Had Ablett been a passenger ala Watkins in the Wigan playoff then you might have a decent point. However, he managed to somehow squeeze the ball down for a try even though he had 5 Catalans defenders on him and carried on playing to a good standard without him looking in any obvious trouble after the initial period after he took the blow.

Not looking in any obvious trouble?
I guess by that comment you didn't see the many times he was checked when the chance occurred by the physio then because I saw at minimum another twice in the 1st half and the same again in the 2nd.
Stubborn doesn't come into it he was in obvious discomfort through out and that has proved to be the case since with the length of his enforced absence.

Was very surprised when Leeds bought Briscoe, he is a very overrated player IMO. His defensive play is poor.

He started like a house on fire though, i was dubious about his signing at first but looked the business straight away.

The team as a whole has been poor for a little while now, its not just Briscoe.I will reserve full judgment until the end of the year when the big matches have been played which are the times you expect the top class players to produce which i still believe Briscoe is.

we will see.

I know combo's can take time to gel. But the Watkins/BJB just had that natural blend, it works. Hope Watkins finds that with Briscoe.

As for BJB he's a winger all day long for me.

How many different wingers did Keith Senior have outside him? all of them scored plenty of tries, and all of them looked good in the partnership. Who the winger was really wasn't an issue.

Ah the old Keith 'Greatest Centre Of Super League', different league. But you're right he did always put his winger away.

For me the Briscoe/Watkins combo has yet to click. Looks a bit st.....st....st....uttery.