Although easy to miss I think if you watch it again closely you'll find it had nothing much to do with the non-existent Hull KR defensive pattern or even the angle of the line run by Hauraki ..... it was all down to the quality of the pass from Leeds' most successful ever scrum-half.

Statistically speaking tvoc Leeds have won a higher percentage of games with McGuire at SH

SL Grand Finals (Championships) by starting scrum-halfs: Burrow 3 McGuire 1

Rings, as nice as they are to have, dont define how great a player is.

But could they be used to define 'Leeds' most successful ever scrum-half' which was the term applied here?

To me, win percentage in the same team defines who's the better scrum half. And from memory in all the GF's he never had a particularly amazing game where as McGuire stands out in all of them. Put Burrow in Cas and they still dont win anything over the last 7 years.

Harry Sunderland Trophies:

Burrow 1

MvGuire 0

You need your memory checking.

Harrigan's about to get double-teamed ...... poor lad.

To put it into an NFL context for you - does win percentage define a great left guard, or cornerback?

There are plenty of players in the NFL Hall of Fame without a Superbowl win to their name. Should they be replaced by players who have better win-loss records?

The team wins, the team loses. Individual personnel can have a bearing on that outcome, but I very much doubt one person in isolation can be held entirely responsible for it.

Would they if McGuire was in the team?

You sure your not mistaken with "man of the series" award?

No, but they would have won more

I obviously do. Just out of interest, which Grand Final was that in? It doesnt change my opinion of him though and he still looked average in general on Sunday. There was one instance where the winger was wide open after he had made the space but he held on too long and blew the try. This was when the game was close too.

Bloody hell, now look what you have made me do!

My Bad.

Man of the series in a GB series win:

Burrow 1

McGuire 0

The one where, co-incidentally, we gave our best of all three performances.

2007

Burrow's kicking and defence were outstanding in '07, '08 and '09. Add to that almost carbon copy half breaks in 07 and 08 that set up position for the game breaking tries (Ali's in 07 and McGuire's from Sinny's kick in 0icon_cool.gif.

It does sometimes surprise me when people talk about Leeds' none existant kicking game when all 4 of our GF wins were based on a flawless display of open field kicking.

Why?

How long have you been posting on here?

Have you not yet realised most posters are clueless?

C'mon Harrigan 07 was also when the win was dedicated to the late great Jeff Stevenson don't you remember the comments about how fitting it was RB won the M.O.M showing a display that the great man himself would of being proud of?
I think your obsession with seeing DM as our 7 is clouding your overall judgement of RB ,of course there's nothing wrong with highlighting when he's played poorly like every other player but c'mon mate he's hardly the poor player you make out.

He has been since end of 2008. In 2007 he was off a different planet to the player we have now.

I dont think he is poor. I think he is average and I want to see more than average. Im not letting it cloud my judgement either. He made some very ordinary decisions on Sunday that in a tighter game may have cost us. I am hoping my wish comes true and Rangi comes in next season to play 6. That way McGuire can move to 7 and Burrow can continue to be average elsewhere.

Well the principal is the same whether it be for just a one off or season long performances. Some players put in much more effort than others do.

What has been changed over the years in Rugby League is the way the positions and former roles have merged. In my early days props had to be a certain size as the scrums were contested. They were expected to batter their way forward and make the odd tackle if someone ran into them. Having said that there were no subs in those days and they had to do a full 80 minutes.

Now props are expected to make a high tackle count and so have less energy and time to also make a high number of effective carries with the notable exception of JP who does both better than most.

Now you find that 2nd row forwards often do much more of the heavy go forward work and props do more tackling. I wonder if the days of the pure prop are over. The more athletic players like JJB make more carries, more tackles, better kick chases, and the same metres as props like Leuluai yet are also capable of offloads, better lines of running, more tries and can stand in for backs when injured.

So I can't help thinking that if we had a pack full of JJB's & Abletts we would be in a much better state than we are. Pehaps we should be looking for more of these types if there are no quality props available?

He may not be as good as now as he was in 07 but he's much better than "average" and i'm sure he'll show it more when the team gets more quality added.

I think burrow is probably slightly better than average, and whilst he has been a good servant to Leeds I tend to agree with harrigan, I don't think burrow has been great for a few years now, save for the odd moment of his old self

Burrow has been excellent THIS season.

Burrow was very good last year.

For some reason some people have an agenda against him. I recall the quins home game last year when he was slated by most on here. I was critricised for posting that he had an excellent game. TVOC then posted the stats which showed Burrow had a Leeds record (since Opta) try assists in a game. Just shows perception doesn't match reality. As further evidence look at Harrigan's memory of Burrow's GF displays. He thinks Burrow is average, he's convinced himself of this and re written his memory of the GFs.

Principle