Can you define what genuine mental health issues are?

Think it's worth pointing out that he doesn't actually say he had depression nor is that word used at all. It reads to me as someone who was perhaps grieving after a significant loss. Whilst both are awful their is a difference between depression and grieving.

Can you?

Probably more than almost anyone a "professional sportsman" is defined by his job. For most of us a job is just a job. Personal life, public life, work, social media etc. all merge into one for guys like Hardaker. I strongly believe you can't run away from yourself, so moving half the way round the world takes Hardaker no further from whatever is going on in his head, but it does get him away from a lot of the outside stuff that is affecting the way he does his job.
FWIW I thought he was no worse than the rest of the team when I saw him play this year, I really don't know much about how he was affecting his teammates though.

If he comes back next season he's got to change some of his more harmful behaviours.
Boredom is a problem I think for sportsmen. You can't train all the time, there is a lot of downtime and there is the comedown from the adrenaline of playing. I get the impression Hardaker is affected more than others. $h1t happens to everyone in their personal life. It's understandable if you down a bottle of something and don't fancy coming into work for a couple of days. The problem with Hardaker seems to be that he has no credit in the bank to do this due to the times he's acted like a bell end for apparantly no other reason than actually being a bell end.

If he comes back he has to train well, behave properly, bin social media and watch what he drinks - if at all during the season. If he does all that he should play well and he should be in a much better place to handle the everyday stresses of life (alcohol is a depressant - it just makes things worse).

No. I wouldn't try. It's useful for pharmaceutical companies to categorise people so they can then prescribe them expensive medication but it's a very slippery road. Everyone has mental issues of one sort or another, to different degrees. I've recently seen my Dad die with/of dementia; I've seen numerous friends suffer extreme reactions to relationship problems/breakdowns; I've seen a work colleague die from the effects of his inability to come out; another work colleague - physically a giant of a man - attempt suicide due to relationship problems; another has just returned after 6 months off with what was called work stress/anxiety. I'm not a doctor but I would say telling any of these people to man up wouldn't have been a cure. They were all people who had an illness at a particular time in their lives. They were all genuine. I don't particularly like Hardaker as a person from what I can see. He is a very lucky person to have the talent & lifestyle he has. But mental health affects everyone either directly or indirectly.

It isn't 'do-gooders' who will claim this is you adding stigma, its anyone with half an ounce of sense and the ability to read your post.

If a player claimed to have broken a leg would you decide that they hadnt? if they claimed to have torn a hamstring would you claim they do that for sympathy? If they had a fractured jaw would you suppose the possibility that was just an excuse?

Firstly, you arent a qualified mental health professional, secondly you have no first hand knowledge of this specific case, literally the only point of your post is to stigmatise Hardaker for admitting his problems. To paint him as possibly cynically manipulating sympathy for mental health problems to cover his 'being an a hole'

If you honestly can't see how people who are struggling with their mental health, who have maybe self-medicated, taken undue risks, made poor decisions, locked themselves away, avoided things (all pretty much textbook manifestations of mental health issues) would maybe keep quite about them lest people think they were making it up for sympathy then i have sympathy for you and those around you.

I purposely didn't mention Hardaker or anyone else for that matter in my post, because you're right, I'm not close enough to the detail.

How many players have you seen come out after being found acting like an a-hole and talk about a broken leg, torn hamstring, broken jaw etc etc

Whilst up on your high horse, you might not see what's happening down on the ground, in the real world. Unfortunately, some people cynically use depression to excuse poor behaviour.

I'm well aware, poor choices/behaviour can be one of the ways depression manifests itself, but it's no coincidence how often it's trotted out by the 'bad lads' nowadays, usually just when they need some good press - like when looking for a new club or contract usually....

As a sport I think we're very pro-active in supporting players with any issues - some will take advantage of that. That's my opinion, based on life experience of people genuinely suffering, and blaggers alike.

Are we pretending context doesnt exist? What relevance does your post have other than to highlight the possibility that he, like others, could be faking it?

So you understand you are treating mental health differently to other illnesses.

Some people fake cancer and other illnesses...

We are so proactive about mental health issues that 6 years ago one of our biggest names killed themselves,
we are so proactive about it that one of SL's most successful players nearly fell out of the game because of depression and mental health struggles not more than a year ago,
we are so pro-active about it that our current Man of Steel was left struggling for weeks because of it and a previous man of steel has barely played in over a year because of it.
We are so pro-active about it that one of the greatest centres of his generation spent a year in the bush because of it,
we are so pro-active about it that one of the best players in the game isnt playing right now because of it.

Yeah, we are doing wonderfully.

To be fair I don't think any sport manages it well at all in part because its just very hard to assist someone who is suffering mental health issues.

Yep. I think we're very poor as a sport in this regard, but then I don't know of a sport that's particularly any better. In society as a whole we're still rubbish in terms of mental health issues in my opinion.

Of the players you're referring to above;

1 - A serial offender with a questionable lifestyle choices and a serious drug addiction
2 - A serial offender with questionable lifestyle choices, drink and recreational drug habits, was a bully as a kid and never grew up out of that mentality - fame and fortune only made him worse
3 - A serial offender with questionable lifestyle choices, drink and drug habits who's had some personal issues
4 - A good 'country' boy, who didn't settle in the bright lights of the city
5 - A bloke who's mixed up in all sorts of bad news, mainly centred around his choice of associates who are heavily linked to drugs, gambling and crime

Now any one or all of these could be suffering from any range of mental health issues and in a couple of cases, I'm sure that is the case, but equally, they could also simply be grade A geese.

People will come out and say maybe drink, drugs, serial offending are all symptoms of a mental health issue, and maybe they are.... Forgive me for being cynical when they only bring this to the table when they're needing the positive press.

The rugby team I'm involved in has blokes with very similar lifestyles as some of the above, are they suffering from mental health issues - no... They're just d!cks, but bet your bottom dollar, if they were in the public eye and getting grief for their behaviour, they'd be happy to trot it out as a 'please forgive me, I'm a battler doing my best' piece.

Having personal issues, misbehaving, losing your job etc etc doesn't mean you've got depression. Going through a tough time, and handling it he wrong way isn't a clinical illness.

As someone whos suffered mental health issues for over 20 years, i could be very cynical about someome leading a chequered life and stating they're having problems. But the reality is that it doesn't discriminate much in the same way that physical illnesses don't, but even though a small minority lie about cancers etc too (even those that live a less than desirable lifestyle) your first response wouldn't be to question whether they're telling the truth would it?! So don't do it with mental illness either!

I think that people need to realise the mental health covers far more than depression. Zak has been through the mill, most of it self inflicted, but that shows that he has a problem with his lifestyle decision making process and that in turn has lead him into a very dark place. Does he have depression - who knows but he definitely needs help from professionals to get him back on track and that means he has a mental health problem. Like Stevie Ward I admire both players for their obvious talent but more so for their bravery in coming out with their problems. Zak made a very salient point. He left because people openly criticised/hated him which I have no doubt compounded his problems. Reading some of the posts on here I can fully understand the issues he has faced and people need to try and understand the issues and stop the toxic old fashioned attitudes on mental health issues that have surfaced on here. I am sure we would be better off with a healthy Zak than putting in a make shift full back who doesn't have the same skill set that Zak has shown previously.

The people who 'will come out and say drink, drugs, serial offending are all symptoms of a mental health issue' are called doctors and mental health professionals. And no i wont forgive you for being cynical about assuming people are using their illness as an excuse because it is a damaging assumption and the complete opposite of reality a recent study of men who had attempted suicide concluded "Almost all men reported that their masculine beliefs led to them isolating themselves when they were feeling down, to avoid imposing on others… and instead, relied on coping strategies that required less immediate effort and provided short-term alleviation of problems, for example, drug or alcohol use, gambling and working excessively, some men reported that adherence to masculine norms meant that feelings associated with being vulnerable provoke greater anxiety than the thought of being dead."

Men arent using having mental health issues as an excuse, they dont hide behind it because it is easy. They are literally killing themselves to avoid admitting they may need help.

You have no idea whether or not these blokes have mental health issues, your certainly not the type of person they would talk to about it. Which is exactly the problem, huge amounts of men like similar lifestyles, self medicating with drugs, indulging risky behaviour, losing their jobs, and just being seen as d1cks, you dont see everything else, you dont see their struggles and problems, the dark thoughts, the fear and anxiety. They wont tell you, and you wont notice, thats why the biggest killer of young men is suicide.

Nobody has said it does, and nobody has said it is.

I am a qualified mental health practitioner, if there are any specific aspects people are unsure of I can try and help.

I actually think rugby league does a lot more than pretty much all other sports in trying to break down mental health and male mental health stigmas in particular.

I agree about rugby league being ahead of other sports.

Interested to know your genuine thoughts on the growing number of 'bad lads' who are 'brave enough' to come out and talk about their mental health issues after they've been caught up to no good.

I get where you are coming from but think that might be a bit of a loaded question.

None of us on here have the foggiest idea about Hardaker's mental health. From my uninformed position of not knowing the man, he appears to go from extremes of highs to lows, in the manner of people with bi-polar traits. Not saying he is because I have'nt a clue.

I had a cousin (no longer with us) a bit older than me who was always changing jobs in the 60's and 70's and always seeming to get into bother. One day my mum (who suffered badly with depression, it effectively led to her early death) explained that my cousin had been diagnosed with a split personality disorder. I listened attentively and then later asked my dad for his opinion.

My old man thought about it for a few seconds and with a straight face replied it was very sad because he did'nt like either of them. My old man never really got it.

IMO Hardaker has done right opening up about it and even if part of it is to elicit sympathy, he is still a young and possibly still fairly immature guy trying to find his way in the world and clearly at times, struggling to do so. I wish him all the best whether that be down under or back in Super league.

I've not learned a lot over the years but as I get older I think the majority of people have to walk a difficult road (to a greater or lesser extent).

So what some have said on here basically is that Hardakers interview is full of lies, though the people suggesting this don't actually know him or the situation. Cynicism in these situations serves only the person who holds that view, and that's great for them until you have a Terry Newton situation.

Jeez people go so over the top on here.

Are you F'in serious?!

Diazepam, tramadol and alcohol. There's his problem. Knock them on the head and he may learn how to cope with life. There are heroin addicts on less lethal cocktails than that.
Talented rugby player. Car crash of a man.
He owes Leeds much better than one outstanding season then going on the p#ss......whatever his justifications.


For all of those who buy into these people who claim to have depression post being 'caught out'.
Symptoms of depression...lethargy, lack of self care, weight loss or gain, insomnia, lack of interest and motivation in anything.
Hmmmm Well turned out managed a game of pro rugby a week (to a much reduced standard this year). Seemed relatively fit Mr Hardaker.

Symptoms of opiate, benzodiazepine and alcohol misuse.....well a much reduced sporting performance for a professional athlete for starters. A focusing on the using of said drugs over other things in their life...lowering of mood, anxiety. That and a whole host of others.

Amazing how these folks who claim to have depression or bi polar always have a severe drug/alcohol misuse problem which is never an issue until caught.

They also never have a personality disorder which is often more clinically accurate.

Mental illness is a catastrophe for people and their families who suffer it. It has horrific and lethal effects. Mental illnesses are very real.

However the continued justification by some (and their employed doctors and lawyers) to justify their appalling behaviour by claiming to be mentally ill when caught (often smashed on drugs and drink) undermines those with the conditions and others attempts to get them recognised as the debilitating, fatal conditions they can be.

100% agreed.

Again it should be pointed out, he never claimed to have depression.

RIP Wire Yed viewtopic.php?f=21&t=598637&view=unread#unread

RIP Wire Yed viewtopic.php?f=21&t=598637&view=unread#unread

Quote ="Charlie Sheen"RIP Wire Yed i.rlfans.com/forums/viewtopic.ph ... ead#unread'" Ah s**t He was very honest about his deamonds on this thread... viewtopic.php?f=17&t=586889&start=150

Quote ="Charlie Sheen"RIP Wire Yed i.rlfans.com/forums/viewtopic.ph ... ead#unread'" Ah s**t He was very honest about his deamonds on this thread... viewtopic.php?f=17&t=586889&start=150