Just seen on rhinos website that bachelors peas will be providing entertainment on Monday. And here I was thinking there was nothing to look forward to.

As our season hasn't been this f*cked since the early 2000's.

A win today puts us above Cas in the 8. After KR we could have been in touching distance of the 4 if all went well.

Now we are even further out of touch with the 8, light years away from the 4 and over a 3rd of the season gone.

I think that the finals are good big pressure games to be a part of.

We are in the biggest fight for over a decade to even get close to a big game and we got knocked out in the 10th round.

That's why it was a massive massive game.

Just my opinion like.

Just to put it in perspective, the Cas injury list was so bad we put Greg Minnikin on the bench. A centre who we signed from York city knights who had yet to play a game. When he did eventually come on it was obviously in desperation as his thigh was so heavily strapped.

For what its worth I still think its sir kevs goal kicking thats the difference between winning and losing for you at the moment.

He did come on though. At least some coaches use all their subs.

It's not worth anything. He doesn't play our sport.
The goals Sutcliffe missed were on the touch line. Gale had regulation tap overs.

We had plenty of chances to win and blew the lot.

I wonder when was the last time Leeds have lost three in succession V Castleford?

All close but having tried losing, drawing and now leading at half-time still can't win a second half against a more structured opponent.

in 2011 we won 3 out of our first 10, not as bad as that

Agreed but Totally different format.

I think we have all massively underestimated the influence that both JP and Sinny had, both on and off the field.

There was a couple of occasions at the end of last year where Kev repeated the same words to the fans, something on the lines of "there'll be loses next year but stick with the boys like you always have done". I thought it was a little odd at the time, especially when he said this at that Triple Celebration thing in Leeds Arena, in hindsight, did he know what was coming? Did he realise that we'd be e without his and JP's input?

There were certain ones of us that under estimated nothing, and knew exactly why we were successful, and how Sinfield carried many players for years. That is Sinfield, he wasn't a duo just because we lost another important player. Sinfield is the difference.

The problem isn't that Sinfield has gone now, it's that as a club we failed massively to prepare for it, again seen by certain posters long before. The fact as fans and as a club we somehow believe that just putting any player/youngster in would produce the same results, is so short sighted. It takes a certain type of player to enable us to move on, and we haven't made any effort to bring that player in.

Surely you can't being that player in. You have to develop that player from within, that takes time and experience. I'm not saying that any of or young lads have that but a homegrown leader is worth fat more than one brought in. We are 7 games into a new era. Whilst it is frustrating to not be winning it will take time. It took saints over 5years to get over the loss of Sculthorpe, cunningham, long etc. I still don't think they have found it.
Players and leaders of their ilk and Sinfield don't grow on trees, they are special because they are rare and you build a club around them. The downside is that when they are gone it leaves a huge hole that can't be filled by one man.

I fully agree and you pointed out our weakness in this area and the real need for a proven playmaker on many occasions.

I seem to remember we lost an entire front row,plus a game managing half back and brilliant captain.It was hoped that Danny mags would steer that transition somewhat but that was blown out of the water in the 1st 25 minutes of the season.It may be argued that the leeds management should have prepared for this eventuality,but didn't Kevs defection come out of the blue?

I agree about Sinfield on the pitch but I get the impression that Peacock had a huge influence off it especially during training and keeping the players focused and disciplined. Without him there the team don't seem to have the same depth of purpose anymore?

Out of the blue to the fans perhaps (I had no inkling until I saw him walk into that press conference with McGeechan sat there) but surely not to the club who presumably facilitated the move - although I understand the two CEO(s) haven't spoken since.

Agreed regards lack of direction right now but it was always going to happen, but also remember that McGuire missing is having a big impact too and that has highlighted it even more so. Regardless of all that, the fact we couldn't get over the line with all the field position and chances we had to get the one try that would have killed the game in the second half has nothing to do with not having Sinfield any more just poor execution in general.We had glorious chance to score on the half time buzzer and the Sutcliffe break just after they both should have been tries but were bombed simple as that, that's the game right there.

I seem to remember Sinny saying something like it happened pretty quick (the 6 weeks prior to the press conference?).

Classic example of what happens when you cut the head off the chicken.
Absolute c**p.

I hate to "write this team off", but I have never thought our coach could handle the big transition that was coming. The club hasn't produced a really high quality player since Stevie Ward either.
Sutcliffe is inexperienced, coming back from a very serious injury in a team with no structure and in poor form, but f*** me, at the very least when faced with those conditions you dig in and work hard - wether it comes off or not. He tackles like a school kid who has to do rugby but really wants to be anywhere else.
The forwards should simply have run over Cas, half backs should have been irrelevant.

It's impossible to underestimate the presence of JP and Sinny at that club. Even on the rare occasions Kev didn't play he was still there. The glue that bound that team together has gone.

You don't think Roby replaced Cunningham? And they had the luxury of doing it right, with Roby the main man before Cunningham finished. How many finals have Saints been in again since Sculthorpe retired?

Sorry but I disagree. Quality players don't grow on trees, that I agree, but proper identifying and planning is always achievable. Development is a major weakness of this club since McDermott was appointed, and we are seeing that clearly now. However, he can't be fully blamed when the guy identifies something and the club don't back him.

For me the biggest problem for this club is complacency. Not the players but the bosses. I suppose sometimes that is what comes with success, and you earn a right for complacency. But some of the problems were so clear to see coming.

With regards replacing Sinfield, if you can't find a player who can do all his roles then you split it and ensure you have it across the team. To have no game manager, no leader, no kicker, and no inspiration to others, throughout a 25 man squad is poor planning.

I do honestly think McGuire would have made a difference last night, but none of the other defeats would he have made a difference, so we are kidding ourselves to cry injuries as a reason.

Without appearing defeatist, I reckon last night has cost us a place in the top four play offs. It might appear too simplistic to declare that two dropped points has cost us any chance of a semi final play off, but under the new format and the way things are panning out, this was a must win game. For a number of reasons I think this has killed us, too many to go into. Any significant improvement can only ever be a slow burner, and it is simply time we don't have any more. Every team will have a poor run of form, and there's nothing to say we won't have another poor run even if we turn this one around. We are this season's Warrington, on paper a nailed on top four team(supposedly), on the pitch anything but. McGuire returning will have the most positive impact the team could hope for, but when you rely so much on one man it's a dangerous situation. What if Mags gets injured again? The only other way to enhance the team with any sort of individual creativity and flare is the return of Ashton Golding, alongside a rejigging of the team to accommodate him. I've resigned myself to just lifting the Challenge Cup again this season, three in a row makes us the new cup kings and I've still got some dough left on my Oyster card.

We have very little chance of being in the top four by end of regular rounds, but as long as we are in touching distance after the split no reason why we can't make top four. The players we have are good enough and if they hit there stride and form I am convinced we are still one of if not the top side in super league. We need some luck some confidence some more bodies back.

People obsessed by the top four is a little bit daft. Saint lose today and we are only four points behind. Widnes won't be anywhere near top four comes seasons end.

Top four is just as achievable as it was back in early February. The bigger issue is how the hell is this team going to turn its self around, and that is the problem situation, whether we have only two wins, or are unbeaten but playing the same. The club and the coach have it massively wrong currently, and that needs to change. Do that and top four is not out of the equation, but can't see them doing that change.

I don't think Leeds will make the top 4 now. We still have to play Wigan twice, saints away, warrington away, huddersfield away, salford away. We have got as many tough away games as we have got out of the way. The fact that leeds still have so many opportunities to take points off rivals in the regular season and in the super 8's (as long as we make it

) could be seen as a positive. A chance to make the ground back up. But the way we have played so far it is difficult to see it as anything other than another nail in the coffin of this season.

Deary me.

It's the knee-jerk massive in here



Has anyone assessed the rest of the SL teams?

I've just seen a try scored between the Top 2 (Warrington V Widnes) on Sky Sports 1, where the build up, the execution and opposition defence were embarrassingly amateur and clueless, with zero intensity.

Leeds are crap but only a moderate improvement would suffice to catapult them towards the Top 4 places in this hilariously inept SL comp.

Hard to argue billy. Eddie Hemmings - 'we have had 2 fantastic games so far, last night to start us off and a great, great Hull derby!'



last night was ok as a contest but skill levels were not high lets be honest it was two desperate teams, and the Hull derby was like watching two pub teams for the most part, pathetic how Rovers fell apart. Just watching Saints now, who i think will comfortably make the 4 still. But they are very poor these days, how many of that side would get in the 2005- 2008 team, i would only say Walmsley and Roby at a push. Its not been good so far this year.