The only real mistake I can remember Hadaker making was dropping a bomb. Aside from that I think you have to credit the quality of wigans kicks and their chase which limited Kick returns in general for us. He also made a couple of good tackles and a couple of kicks trying for a repeat set, something no one else seemed to be interested in.

Other than that I agree with what's been said. Manfredi looks like the prototype winger for the modern game.

Well said.

i said the jury is still out on the coach , is it him that should be credited with the trophy wins or was it more the experience of Sinny , J.P , Mags and others game management that has seen us through . I stil maintain that without Sutty getting injured we would not have won the treble and that was not down to the coach .

When it came to the crunch Sutcliffe wouldn't have kept Sinfield out of the side. Him being dropped and replaced by Sinfield in the early cup game vs Hudds showed that.

Have to agree. Sutty would be worth a shot at loose until Ward is back. He can't direct a team around the pitch, and he's doubley exposed by having a rookie in Lilley alongside him. However, they are both in the deep end. They will either sink or swim. We couldn't have had a much tougher start than Catalans and Wigan away and Wire, Giants, Thurston & co at home.

Catalan and Huddersfield were garbage when we played them

So we're Warrington. Not sure how much ball a team needs to be turned over to you to win a match.

The match last week, was the poorest quality match I have seen involving Leeds since the mid 90's.

That is an absolutely ridiculous statement, to say we would have done worse if a player was fit???
He was in the team on merit, and was playing better than sinfield before he got injured
Guess we dont know whether his form then or now is the outlier atm, will know more when the rest of the team wakes up

If Leeds turn into Wire or Saints, just buying old Aussie halfbacks instead trying to produce their own, then a huge portion of the club culture dies

One of the two sides McDermott has led as head coach has won trophies but the other didn't. If that comes as no great surprise then what made the difference - the club, the players, the facilities, the support of backroom staff etc.

Leeds won trophies before McDermott took charge also, the core group of players were champions already.

McDermott's tenure continues, can he lead Leeds to further success now the team is forced to evolve. Last season he was portrayed as a facilitator giving space and responsibility to key senior players - are enough/any of those type there anymore. SL is evening out/levelling down and if Wigan plus Warrington can keep winning consistently 3rd and 4th could go to any of the following six or seven teams and no reason why Leeds won't be one of them.

Subtly put......

McGuire's injury was just about the worst we could have. Sutcliffe with McGuire was the choice from the off. Lilley plus McGuire would also probably go OK, as would Burrow and McGuire. But McGuire is the only organiser with any experience. That combined with Falloon being unavailable has understandably dented the attack.

I also wonder whether Leeds have aimed to taper fitness differently last year. We won the comp but were running on fumes at the end of the year, and not just due to injuries. The Super 8s mean a lot of harder games at the back end of the year, so I wouldn't be surprised if a conscious decision was made to not try to hit the ground at 100 mph.

That's the glass half full view. The glass half empty is that this looks like being a long and barren season.

Overall i thought we were p!$$ poor ,rudderless & devoid of any ideas or shape.
We looked unfit and where our 6 & 7 are concerned it was blatantly apparent they were playing under orders to pass it to Zak or Burrow unless impossible as well as playing behind a well beaten pack.
Re-The Coach many times over the years he's openly admitted to leaving the last training session pre-match to the likes of Sinny and JP also the HT and post match inquests that's not to say he himself didn't have any input but he & his staff need to get a grip asap and fill that glaring void.

Please stop reading between the lines - I'm clearly being supportive here. Leeds have never missed out on the SL Play-Offs before, no reason that record will end under Brian.

The scoreline flattered Leeds.

Joe Average's like Achurch look liked world beaters at the side of Galloway. Only decent hit he's put on was on his own team mate (Ferres).

I'll admit to being surprised at how bad Galloway has been. I wasn't expecting Sam Burgess but I was expecting a bit solid prop who had a good reputation, especially defensively. In two games now we conceded tries from his soft defence on the goal line. He also has that horrible trait of looking like he's going to get penalised every tackle he's involved in.

He's lucky Garbutt stepped up against Tamou, because Galloway was going to do nothing.

The Garbutt effort was no different to king-hitting someone from behind because Tamou's gaze was clearly directed towards expecting a response from Galloway.

A low grub act from Garbutt if ever there was one and unworthy of kudos.

Nice try !

Your problem is that you've been trawling so long, you can't remember what line or bait you're using. Your attitude to Keith Mason's blind side attack on Jamie Peacock was somewhat different.

McDermott had probably the biggest re-building job in RL on his hands. It will take years to see through and I’ll be amazed if he’s still in charge at the end of it.

It’s not surprising to see young players like Sutcliffe and Lilley get the same sort of thing written about them on here now as was the case for the likes of Sinfield, Burrow, McGuire etc in 2000-2004.

Seeing how Leeds go through this transition is going to be the most interesting thing to happen to Leeds in a few seasons. Whether the likes of Sutcliffe and Lilley “good enough for Leeds” is going to take time to find out but it’ll be entertaining to read the knee jerk reactions after each game.

"It’s not surprising to see young players like Sutcliffe and Lilley get the same sort of thing written about them on here now as was the case for the likes of Sinfield, Burrow, McGuire etc in 2000-2004. "

Sinfield we all knew was a special talent & we also knew that McGuire & Burrow had exceptional pace. The main question was with regard to Burrow's size.
So they did not get the same stuff written about them as Sutcliffe & Lilley.

There was no such things written about them at all, as everyone knew what skill they had, and they all ready had a reputation before they were thrown in. The difference is now we are going with players with nothing near the same rep.

McDermotts job was not so big at all, not as big as made out. All it took was proper planning, and to be fair to the coach, if you are not backed with what you want by the one making the decision, then it only makes his job that much harder.

I wish I could go back as far as 2000-04 and find some quotes. I recall plenty along the lines of Sinfield not being big enough or quick enough and McGuire having pace but nothing else and being a turnstile in defence. We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Gotcha I'm not sure what your second sentence means - could you re-phrase?

Sinfield not quick enough and McGuire not having anything except pace.....you don't have to look back to 2000-2004. People were coming out with that stuff 12-18 months ago.

The coach wanted one thing and his boss wanted another thing. Whether it would have worked better the coaches way, we won't know, but it certainly hasn't helped.

Throw a fully fit McGuire, Briscoe, Moon, Ward, Falloon and JJB into that team and the results will turn round.

We're going through a bad spell, with knocks etc. If this is our time to have them, i'd rather have it now than later. A transitional year, with a start being made harder than we could have expected.