In essence it's a choice between a FB who is defensively strong and links in attack or one who offers the more creative attacking options.
It's really going to be down to what options you have in the halves. If you choose less creative halves you have to make up for it somewhere else, and that would be FB these days (loose forwards are just extra props these days). England had no creativity in the halves against NZ and we looked boring and struggled to move the ball or create any space. If you had the same halves then I can't see any other option than having Tomkins at FB. It plainly didn't work for Zac (or any of the outside backs) going forward the way England set up.
However, if you add Sam and George Burgess up the middle and, dare I say Cuthbertson, then you have the threat up the middle of an offloading game sucking in wider defenders and delaying the defensive line getting set (something we spectacularly failed to do against NZ) then you create a much better structure for a classical linking fullback like Hardaker to free up the rest of the backs - who are very, very good.

Going to be interesting.

I'm as happy as anyone to slag the little turd off, but I'm struggling to see anything in that article to criticise him over.

As DHM says, the lack of creativity in the halves may necessitate Tomkins rather than Hardaker at full back.
Hardakers defence is superb but even for Leeds he was often struggling to effectively fit in to our attack. That is obviously highlighted more so for England where you're not as familiar with the other players. Hopefully he'll improve his ability to link into an attacking line/move, if he does he'll have pretty much everything.

It seems to me it depends on whether you want your full-back to be able to defend. Zak is better in the air (crucial it seems to me when the sides down under rely so much upon bombs in attack) & is a better one on one tackler than ST.
If fit I think both will play, ST will be FB in attack & Zk will be FB when defending.

Bennett will be more familiar with the terrible NRL version of Tomkins than the exciting, pre-crocked Super League version.

That said, if Tomkins does recover some fitness or form then perhaps Bennett will move him up to the halves as he's done with a similar attacking talent - Milford - at the Broncos.

He's an intensely irritating individual but I don't read anything in there other than a player wanting to remind Bennett in particular that he is still out there. Bennett's appointment should have a positive effect on elite players, making them more likely to want to be part of the set up & less likely to take their skills elsewhere.

Agree that Hardaker is a much better defender, he's excellent, the best in the world in my opinion.

That's something I've thought of before to try and have the best of both, but I struggled to find a good way of incorporating both of them in that fashion.

Presumably you'd have them swapping from full back and centre?
Obviously that's not a problem having Hardaker attack in the centre position, but having Tomkins defend there would be an issue.

Ironically, this knee injury could be the making of Tomkins moving back into the halves on a permanent basis.

If he loses some of his pace, agility and elusiveness then like McGuire before him he will need to add other elements to his game.

There is a long season ahead before Bennett needs to make any choices. First thing is to see how Tomkins plays. Some of his passing under pressure in nrl looked brilliant to me. He will have more space playing for Wigan. Other parts of his game are likely to be better post nrl, if his body holds up and he can still step etc his attacking game could be outstanding. Playing him in halves and defending wide like McGuire and others do may be his future. Who knows ?

The only thing is know for sure is don't really bothered if he throws Bennett a bit of toffee or grows another weird beard like half of rest of league.

Trust Bennett to make right choice at end of year.

Agree

I think his passing is already there

But you're much more likely to get a heavy bad knock to your knee at SO than you are at FB - and rightly or wrongly, opposition players will be fully aware off that.

Are Hardaker's comment's any different to Tomkin's? www.loverugbyleague.com/news_207 ... tment.html

Are Hardaker's comment's any different to Tomkin's? www.loverugbyleague.com/news_207 ... tment.html

I watched the 2 years in NRL and have to say i must have watched a different Tomkins, He was very good in defence, perhaps not as good as Hardakre but not half as bas as you all are making out....

Quote ="Old Feller"Are Hardaker's comment's any different to Tomkin's? www.loverugbyleague.com/news_207 ... tment.html'" Yes, Hardaker speaks of earning the England shirt. Tomkins manifestly feels entitled to it. Tells me everything I need to know about the quality of their respective personalities.

Quote ="Old Feller"Are Hardaker's comment's any different to Tomkin's? www.loverugbyleague.com/news_207 ... tment.html'" Yes, Hardaker speaks of earning the England shirt. Tomkins manifestly feels entitled to it. Tells me everything I need to know about the quality of their respective personalities.

What is so offensive about the comments from Tomkins? If not offensive what specifically irritates you to obvious distraction?
If you can't answer no problem.
If he was interviewed and said he couldn't give a shoite about playing for England again I think you would be part of the crew who would be screaming he was a traitor.

Am I the only one who thinks ST is overrated?

No doubting he had a couple of good years at Wigan but he showed none of that form in the nrl. I know he had injuries but that aside the Aussie's knew how to shut him down.

I'm just not convinced he is gonna be the worldy some are predicting.

Oh, come on Fallon!.
'A couple of good years at Wigan' is a bit of an understatement. I disliked him as much as the next Rhino fan, mainly for his holding down, and whingeing.. But he was an undeniably talented player. The best we have some seen for some time in my eyes.
I was delighted when he went down under, as he often tore holes in most teams' defences! But, as a rugby league fan, (without my Rhinos hat on), I feel we have to acknowledge how good he is...even if Zak is a better full back. He will, assuming he gets back to full fitness, be one of the best, and most exciting players in the game, again.
And Zak will still be England's number 1 !

I think the general consensus even among wigan fans is that Hardaker is the better fullback but tomkins is definately a better half.
I think Bennet above other coaches would see that, given his movement of Lockyer and Milford from 1 to 6.
Im actually interested to see if Bennet might tell tomkins to move into the halves at club level, especially as Shuan Wane has been tipped as one of his assisstants.

No one mentioned outrage. Your argument has no legs - a bit like England's no. 2 full-back.

Pathetic attempt at answering my question. I've asked you question not argued with you
I think you must be a politician.

You're right Nick, he had 3/4 good years at Wigan, I was a little light on that.

I'm still of the opinion that he is overrated particularly when people hold him up as the best seen for some time. He has an unorthodox side step and some pace but that's it. Once defences know how to cover that a lot of his attack is nullified. This was shown in the nrl.

Being voted the biggest flop in the nrl was harsh imo but it shows from the best league in the world that he is over-hyped. I would point out in his defence that he can't control how hyped he is.

All this animosity because of this:



Hurt a lot of you deeply it seems. Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Tomkins has yet to prove his fitness, let alone his ability to play half back to international standard. I wouldn't bet on Bennett having him pencilled in to fill any position just yet. That's not a reflection of Sam's ability, just a reflection on the reality of where his career's at right now.

You've made this point already. Dementia kicking in? Or merely tedious?

Hurt? No. But don't expect him to "liked" by all Leeds fans. I'm sure it's mutual anyway so should all be good fun when he actually gets on the rugby field.

Imagine if that was McGuire giving that gesture to the Wigan fans? Chernobyl would look like a party popper compared to the meltdown there would be on the Pie board.