I thought Wilkin's comment after the game, something along the lines of the weekend being a wake-up call showing that teams can't afford to make errors at the highest level, was a revealing one.

What a thick fu(ker. How many grand finals, internationals and WCCs does he need to lose badly in for the penny to drop? I have grave doubts that we would have come close to winning last night but at least our players are, and have been, fully aware of the importance of playing error-free rugby in those type of games.

The souths team by and large are superior player wise than saints, what enhances the team is top class coaching .
They did everything correct both in attack and defence. I liked the cross kick ploy which you don't see much of in our game.
A telling moment of the weekends games was in the Wigan match in extra time. Was the smith attempt at a drop goal from way out. The better option was to kick into the corner and force Brisbane to run out from virtually there own line. He just panicked .
Looking forward to this weeks giants game, whilst its still early season this match may indicate if we can make this season a success .

I don't think we'd have beaten Souths, but Souths murdered Saints in their 3/4s and we have personnel there. Their last-ditch defence was great but you'd back Watkins with his extra strength to score at least one of the Percival no-tries and Hall to get over where Swift was barged into touch. That said, Souths are that good they'd have found another way to batter us, probably up the middle.

So the question is, how do English players get to the standards that Souths set last night?

Too many seem to reach a level where they are comfortable in just getting first team rugby and have no desire to push on and improve their games even further. The accuracy with which every single player in that Souths team was able to pass the ball, at pace and under pressure, isn't a talent you're born with. It takes endless hours on the training field to develop and refine.

We can bleat all we like in the UK about conditions and weather and not being the national sport that gets first pick of the talented athletes, but in the end these are all too often lazy excuses for not being prepared to put the work in to test ourselves. Any British player worth their salt should be biting off the hand of any NRL club that comes calling. Otherwise they're sitting in their comfort zone and being part of the problem, not the solution.

I agree with this.
How anonymous was Travis Burns?
The Saints pack tried hard but against a pack as big if not bigger & certainly stronger they struggled.
Again the Souths kicking game was exemplary, something that Phil Clarke for once correctly highlighted in his commentary.
When we let in 30 vs HKR that was largely down to their very recent Aussie imports Kelly & Campese. SL has to improve the home-grown talent in this area of the game.

obviously being over here right now I've not seen anything from these games and going by reports I don't think our team would have won.However I am proud in the knowledge that in those WCC games we always gave a good account of ourselves,it was as if this game meant a lot and the team prepared very well and it did affect our immediate SL performances after the game. Apart from the Manly game I T thought we were very unlucky against Melbourne Storm at ER

Don't think there was any lack of desire or under-preparedness about any of the English efforts and all three sides may well suffer in similar fashion to how we did. I wouldn't say any of our three was unlucky this weekend with the wire and wigan scorelines flattering the English sides (though special mention to wigan for an especially-heroic effort). I thought the Australian sides were better-prepared than some I've seen in WCCs, or maybe their overall standard has just lifted another notch.
Fact is, the games were played in wintry conditions on pitches that were a throwback to the muddy 1970s, in England, and our lot still struggled. We've a way to go.

I've said the exact same thing to a colleague this morning. We see it every time a team from here plays a team from there. Their passes are crisp and the runners hit better angles. Take our own McGuire. He's been a top half back for over 10 years, and yet his passing at times is shocking. But it seems the norm over here.

Because it's enough to get by, and there isn't someone with an infinitely better passing game nipping at his heels.

Arguably, the likes of Burrow for example are still playing the same game with the same flaws they had ten years ago. It's this player stagnation and the lack of challenges that holds the game back over here.

Russel Crowe's South Sydney have really come on since we played a bit of a game against them in FLA a few years ago

Last season provided us with the worst winners in the history of SL. The result against Souths was entirely predictable.
Simple fact is a crap team won the lowest quality competition we've had in some time.

No mystery.

Depressingly correct .

That stagnation of players starts with the clubs rather than just the players. Take Leeds as an example, under McDermotts reign, he has continually picked his teams NOT on form, but on reputation. Therefore what is the incentive for the player with the reputation to improve his game?

All clubs should pick teams on form and ensure their players are working to the top of their game more consistently.

Not sure if it can be said a salary cap aids this or not.

Might have to agree to disagree here, but the stagnation of players starts and ends with the player IMO.

The "incentive" for the player to continually improve their game should be simple professional pride and what they can contribute to the team if they get better. Also if they're not happy at their current club, surely becoming a better player helps them to get a move elsewhere, whether that's another SL club, NRL or Union.

I'll give you Jamie Foster as an example. With work on the defensive side of his game, Jamie Foster has enough skill to be playing in SL. Instead, he's playing in some tinpot Union side in Hull and tweeting pictures of his brand new flash Mercedes. Did he want to do the hard work it would have taken to make a success of his rugby league career? On the face of it, doesn't look that way.

Think Andy has a great point.

As soon as Ryan Atkins and Leroy Cudjoe got their hands on an England shirt their progression stopped. Think they're both in reverse currently as well.

But if a player isn't unhappy at their current club, again where is the incentive to get better if they are already picked each week regardless?

I don't disagree with you on professional pride. But if clubs are picking sides regardless of form, I don't see the kick for the players to improve.

Pick on form and I am sure you will see a different ethic from players.

The entire problem, be it players not pushing themselves enough or clubs continuing to pick players regardless of form, comes from a lack of competition.

If there was another member of the squad of sufficient quality to step in when a top player loses form then the club would be more likely to make the change and the player would be more likely to push himself to improve.

Unfortunately, most squad players in SL aren't of good enough quality to provide this competition. They're there to cover injuries not push a first 13 player out of his place.

I'm on the Ryan Atkins diet. Whatever you eat, you put weight on because you can't pass anything.

Atkins is the definition of the term "Flat Track Bully"

Great when your on top.
Rubbish when you need him to step up.

The difference between Atkins and a top class is the letter 'W'.

Who does Anker play for?

I don't think its a lack of will, but a lack of necessity. Burrow can, and has, won us games doing what he does. A player like him can win 6 grand finals, never finish out of the play offs, win the cc appear in multiple finals being the player he is. Leeds can win most games comfortably with burrow doing little more than quick breaks from dummy half, slow distribution doesn't mean you lose, an imperfect kicking game isn't fatal etc etc.

Should it need to be a matter of will? Shouldn't a player, at whatever stage of their career, always looking to be adding something extra to their game?

One thing that really does stand out, both in these games and when England play is the gap in error rate is enormous. Sl sides far too often lose the ball in the tackle or make rubbish passes mand aimless kicks. Aus/NZ and NRL sides do make errors, but far fewer absolute howlers in bad parts of the field. SL allows such mistakes because they simply aren't punished as harshly as they are in the NRL. They also don't necessarily show up in the stats, but its as clear as day to anybody watching.

Its interesting that the lack of size/strength in the outside backs is a problem for some SL teams. Souths themselves had virtually the same pack last year as 2013, but they replaced 2-5 with bigger, stronger players and it made a huge difference both in attack and defence. The days of small outside backs are probably long gone.

I agree there were far too many basic errors and spilled ball across the 3 games which ultimately cost the SL side, especially Wire and Wigan in the tight games. Some of the mistakes this weekend though were in the diabolical category, i mean Joe Burgess must have coughed the ball up at least 3 times in his own 25, and these really were not brought about because of opposition pressure, just really bad drops you would expect to make once every few games. I can't recall seeing any of that during his breakthrough year.Then you had Simms for the wire, he spilled at least a couple of times in his own half, 1 leading to a try and he is an NRL veteran. Just one of those things i guess but it shows you can't afford to turn ball over against top sides or they will kill you.

Regarding the three quarters, The game is going the way of Union in this regard, big seems to be the way but i do think there is still a place for the smaller, quick and elusive guys just not a full back line of them.Saints three quarters, who are in the small category, made no headway against there far bigger counter parts. And i thought Josh Dugan who is a big unit for a FB made a lot of good yards bringing the ball back on friday.