Be careful Wiliam, [urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29678989[/url

Bailey and Kirke are obviously seen as a safe pair of hands to hold the fort whilst JP and Kylie have a rest - the offer nothing in attack, but don't drop the ball too often, and make a decent number of tackles - which is fine, but surely we should be aspiring to more from our bench - we want some impact, a lift to the team.

Singleton surely has to be 3rd in line, yes he'll make some mistakes, but it's the only way he'll improve - from both a technical and fitness perspective. No amount of training offers the same benefits of match fitness - getting used to that 2nd wind and pushing on is what builds a players stamina and mental agility when tired.

I'd much rather go down fighting as a result of mistakes from a youngster who's trying to make an impact than fall by the wayside as also rans who's 'steady eddies' weren't quite good enough.

Singleton for me needs to bulk up. Carrying too much timber for me. But yes I agree needs some game time all these up and coming props need the time ahead of bailey and kirke for me

A general election is clearly looming.

Tough on trolls,
Tough on the causes of trolls.

"Prosecution awaits" according to Richard Madeley in that link above. He ought to know. Wasn't he once acquitted of walking out of Tesco with sundry bottles of wine he hadn't paid for?

Shoplifters of the world,
Unite and take over...

Stick around

We'll have to wait and see with respect to whether the team can consistently beat top sides, but Superted is plainly wrong in terms of one-offs - Leeds this year showed they were more than capable of beating any of the top sides when they really wanted to.

My feeling is that next year won't be anywhere near as bad as some reckon, even if we don't sign anyone else. The following year, post JP, is another beast entirely.

The basic fact is that the Leeds pack and set of halves is ageing and the team now lacks the exciting skill factor that has been recently acquired by other clubs (e.g. Catalans Todd Carney, Morgan Escare and Elliot Whitehead, or Hull KR's Albert Kelly, Kenneth Sio and Kevin Larroyer). Leeds is not only standing still, but because of age it is going backwards while certain other clubs are improving. And all Gary Hetherington can do is try to sabotage talent acquisition by more dynamic clubs (e.g. the Catalans signing of Todd Carney).

Leeds needs a new front office.

Leeds showed nothing of the sort this last season. They showed they can beat Castleford if that is what you meant. But we lost twice to Wigan, twice to Huddersfield, and twice to Saints of the other top four sides. When it really mattered we couldn't even beat the 7th placed team.

Let's not confuse this last season with previous years. Personally I think we are much worse than people make out, rather than not as bad. But of course we could still end up seeing sense and make a couple of changes yet, which would change things a lot.

Sorry mate but things have not regressed that far yet as to think Hull KR will be a threat to us or any of the top sides.Just because they have signed a couple of unwanted Aussie halves (Its happened before, how did Kris Keating work out again?) does not mean they will be a factor.Catalan are always an interesting one.If they can get all their big names on the pitch and firing they can match anyone and are always formidable at home but on the road will always be the big test for them.The signing of Carney should firmly put them in the mix for next years top 4 though.

As for us, i think we will make the 4 no problem as long as all the key players stay fit (JP we cannot do without for any length of time though). Beyond next season is clearly the worry right now.

The three that have gone to Hull KR are pretty poor NRL players especially Kelly who is very like Chris Sandow in that he has one great game a season.

The idea that we will make the top 4 no problem is arrogance - under McDermott they have made the top 4 once with arguably stronger sides. Wigan have shown they have our measure so have Saints, if the get all their players back it could be embarrassing, when was the last time we beat Huddersfield? That doesn't account for Warrington or Catalans.

I would be amazed if Leeds made the top 4 they have shown over the past 4 years they are not consistent enough and not able to beat the top sides regularly enough. It wouldn't be a massive shock if they didn't make the 8.

Including Ablett, Leeds current squad has 8 first team regulars that have been playing top flight Rugby for 10 years or more.

Is that an achievement or a hindrance?

If BMcD continues to use Burrow as his starting hooker, we're looking at a starting front row with a combined age of 106 years old!

IMO I think we'll struggle to make top 4 next year. We'll do exactly the same as we did this year - come out of the blocks like a hare but finish the season like a tortoise.

I'm a bit split.

On one hand I think the new system will see Leeds having to go for it to make the top 4. At the cut off stage this season we were second. We also have players coming through who can take over from the aging legs over the course of the season. Many of our biggest players have a full off season. There is no CC monkey to get off the teams back. All of these point to a reasonable league campaign.

On the other hand, the way Leeds played in the 2nd half of the season was dire, with little imagination, or flair. Often losing games they had got themselves into a position they could have won from. The squad is older, and the coach doesn't trust the younger players to do a job.

I think a lot depends on McDermott. I think the sqaud is decent. I don't think it is champions material, but I can see top 4, but only if managed correctly.

Burrow back to 7 seems a no brainer for me, to add a bit of zip and unpredictability.

I think we need to accept that Peacock is more limited than he used to be. He is still very capable, and the first name on the teamsheet, but not for 80 mins. Give him smaller stints and allow him to produce better quality.
Leeds have to go all in with some of the juniors. IMO they should start the season with the shirt. The likes of Singleton and Sutcliffe won't kick on unless they are given regular time, rather than 3 weeks in 2 weeks out. If they're not up to it we need to know this season to make other plans rather than next season when its too late.

Its not all doom and gloom for me but I think it not all roses. We will beat some top teams, and we will lose to some poor teams. I think its up to McDermott to get the best out of the players that he has

First of all i made that statement on the basis in which i stated, that the key players i.e the likes of Sinfield,Burrow,Hardaker and particularly JP stay fit. That is a must because our squad depth is not the best in certain areas.And secondly, for all Billy Eve's constant ramblings one thing he has got spot on is the fact that the bigger teams have toshed it off for large parts of the season on the current format , Leeds being the founder member of this strategy.Now, with less scope in which to down tools i have the belief that the side will bust a gut to finish top 2, which i agree maybe beyond us but top 4 will be comfortable enough IF we don't lose said key players.

i fail to see the arrogance in that belief.

Not sure they did this often enough to justify the statement and even if accurate it raises concerns that they didn't want to do it more.

__________

Leeds' record in all fixtures under McDermott V Huddersfield, St Helens, Warrington and Wigan - who I would suggest have been their main competition and will likely remain so in 2015 - has been sub par over four seasons :

Played 48, Won 17, Drawn 2, Lost 29

I currently see Leeds struggling to make the top four without something changes between now and February.

The arrogance is the "Leeds will make the top 4 no problem" as if all they have to do is turn up.

All the key players have to stay fit - that is very unlikely to happen in a high collision sport and a team of ageing players who have begun to show physical frailties.

We don't have great depth nor do we have a raft of youngsters pushing for inclusion especially in the backs and the halves.

Last season when Leeds were asked to step up they couldn't do it - what is to suggest next season will be any different?

They have consistently failed to beat the top sides given most have strengthen and Leeds - on paper at least - are weaker how do you propose that will improve? No way that Leeds would have "tossed it off" against the likes of Wigan, Saints, Warrington and Huddersfield.

I wouldn't rule out Leeds making the top 4. The key for me is releasing all the untapped potential in our back five. Man for man I still think (Briscoe's patchy form notwithstanding) it's easily the best 1-5 in the league. But, when you compare the space it gets to work in and the quality of ball it receives to that which the (in my opinion) somewhat more limited backs at Wigan enjoy, that is where I think the problem lies.

Some of that is obviously the product of the opportunity to play large stretches of the match on the front foot, provided by the sheer ferocity of Wigan's forward pack. However, we still didn't really release our backs well enough when we were on the front foot. Some combination of 9, 7, 6 and our overall attacking structures have to be looked at.

I am cautiously optimistic about the effect that Cuthbertson can have on the pack, and I hope to see a couple of youngsters develop further (Singleton had a bit of a nothing season when I saw him, but is young and still has huge promise, Walters looks a good prospect etc). So, if we manage to biff the ball over the gain line, and get it played quickly, am I confident we can put some points on teams and win matches? No, actually. I'm not. Sinfield, Burrow and McGuire have plenty of ability to do what's needed, and I don't think it's age that's blunting them (they can still run and pass, McGuire stopped relying on speed years ago, Burrow is still quick, Sinfield was never quick). But something in the timing and the link up play did not work in 2014.

If that is fixed, our dangerous backline comes into play in the right areas in the right space, and we can be a threat. Personally, somebody like Lunt (more so than somebody like Clark) would make me feel better about the whole thing. But I think we will start the season with what's already confirmed, so the players at 6, 7, 9 and 13 have to make it work better, and the coach has to help that happen.

Otherwise, no, I don't think we'll do more than scrape into the top 4 (I think there will probably be a situation where 3 or 4 teams are fighting for 4th in the last few rounds next year) at best.

let's not forget that even though we "tossed it off" for the second half of the season we spent most of the year occupying the top two spots in the league and would've finished there until the weakened line-ups for the Bradford and London losses for the CC. Regardless of whether some of here don't think the CC was/is worth it, you can't seriously deny that clearly it was the players focus (whether right or wrong in your views).

That whole will they ever win it thing is gone which I think will make a big difference to the concentration and focus given to the league instead. One issue that I'm hopeful will play a positive part is that Sinfield retired from internationals. The guy needed an extended break and if he can see a positive effect much like Peacock did from retiring from England then that could be an important step for us (also why I'm glad Ablett didn't make England even though he probably deserved to).

One thing about our squad ATM is that I can't see it being able to go for both so hopefully the CC see's an early exit before the Semi stage. Another area is that 3 of our rivals will have their attentions switched to the WCC early on whereas we don't and that could work in our favour.

But we didn't "toss it off", that is where the arrogance of some comes in. We simply were not good enough to get ourselves the points. That was clear by how consistent we were about it, and how it didn't matter whether top teams or rabble.

So we threw everything in he games we lost vs Wakey, London, Bradford and Hull? There was two games in the latter part of the season that we threw everything at and that was the Cas and Saints games at home, and silly red cards cost us getting 4pts from 4. Had we played with the same attitude in those first four games as we did in latter two we would've won all four.

The "tossing it off" line is a bit worn. I don't believe we've ever "tossed it off", though I am fairly sure that training intensity will have been staged and managed to allow us to peak at particular times. Fairly basic sports science would suggest that if you want to be at maximum functional fitness in August-October then you probably need to spend quite a lot of June and July training at a higher intensity than is ideal for preparing for June and July's matches. That isn't the same (the opposite in fact) as tossing it off.

The rather noticeable difference between last year and other years with an almost indentical cup run (same number of matches, albeit different outcome) was that we were totally unable to lift again in September. In 2011 and 2012 we went all the way to Wembley in the CC, and then bounced back to finish the season incredibly strongly (also true to a degree in 2010, where despite a lack of form we ended up winning at Wigan and losing the semi final re-match in a match that was actually closer than the scoreline suggested).

The 2010, '11, '12 model does not apply to 2014, where we were not able to peak when it mattered. Unless we think the last couple of rounds and the play-offs don't matter.

So, do we interpret the 2014 Challenge Cup as a sort of last hurrah for a genuinely great group of players? Dunno. I do know that it is likely the squad we're going with next season, so it has to do better in the league.

The Hull game really didn't matter. No point looking at that.

The Bradford game we picked a side without a few regulars, that should still have been good enough to get the W. That was poor. That we then got our fingers burned exactly the same way again against London was a bit more worrying.

Why the scrapping the barrel of excuses? out of our last 16 league games, we lost nine, drew one luckily, and had two very lucky victories.

We lost games, because we were not good enough. It wasn't just down to two or three. The rot set in well before, and failings were found out early.

I think Leeds need a couple of new players in the pack and some fresh blood in the halves to be back at the top.

I'll be delighted to see them go with what they currently have for 2015.

It's not scraping the barrel it's just pointing out how things happened from another view. This team that wasn't good enough to beat the likes of Bradford and London and Wakey also managed to beat Wire and Cas in knockout games around the same time so of course the players focus has to be more in question than ability?

Whilst some don't like it you can't downplay the significance of the CC.

Had Saints beat us in Round 5 and Wigan beat Cas in then quarters do you still think those two teams finish top 2? Do you think Cas stumble at the last hurdle without a cup semi and final to prepare for? Do you think we pick the same line-ups vs Bradford and London that cost us a top 2 spot?