I agree with most of your post apart from one bit. I think Leeds will finish in the Top 4 next season in spite of a further fall in playing standards at the club and among SL clubs as a whole. This process of gradual slide has been ongoing for the greater part of the last decade.

The likes of Huddersfield and Castleford are whipping boy SL rabble whose Top 4 placings are entirely dependent upon other SL clubs tossing it off in order to finish 5th or 6th.

Grr, I have just had 'Uncles Gaz's' email. This bit got my back the most;

"We also have stability which, I believe, is a key factor for success. Leeds United had it in the Revie era and Manchester United had it with Alex Ferguson. When clubs lose it, they often suffer and take a long time to get it back. I know fans like to see a raft of new signings and new coaches and that model certainly operates in football today, but for me, that is the perfect recipe for non-achievement."

Overlooking the fact (as I have outlined on another thread) that people were saying for 2 years about prior to Fergie's retirement about his 'stable' midfield being in dire need of new legs and creativity as they were on their last legs at the same time and their replacements not being good enough. And look how it went for Moyes when he inherited that 'stability' and how much LVG has then had to spend to try and quickly address it with players in their prime and thus commanding top dollar.

As others have said, having seen the legends of KL and JP in the last 2 years (thus able to talk about them fondly in 50 years to Gary's relatives when they are in charge) what impetus is there to me to watch them again this year, when they are a bit less effective?

May as well take the year off and pick and choose and then become a SCO again in 2016 when he then has to contradict the 'stability' line as he only has half a team for failing to address it earlier?

I've never understood the season ticket purchasing mentality, unless it's about reserving the particular seat you've sat on for years? So you can sit alongside mates or family.

The discount (2 free games) is hardly worth it, though I have noticed in recent years the policy of inflated prices for those paying at the turnstile which doesn't sit comfortably with me at all and is another reason why I no longer attend games.

Moreover, I'd have to be paid to summon up enough enthusiasm to turn up for games against well over half of the opposition SL clubs, and that's just the prelude to considering Leeds tossing-it-off attitude towards the regular season.

Season tickets - Pah!

Whilst i agree with GH on his stability quote to a certain extent, i really think he is in fantasy land if he thinks we can continue to operate at the top table beyond next year without spending some cash.

Yes, next year this squad will be competing, but when JP,Kylie,Sinfield,Mcguire,JJB and burrow have all gone, which will more than likely in almost all cases be end of 2016 what then? The fringe players have shown on the whole they can't be trusted to step up and a lot of the young lads have so havn't ripped up too many trees yet and although time is still on their side at this minute you wouldn't be confident leaving the reigns in the hands of the likes of Singleton,Ward and Sutcliffe.

SL thankfully is not of a great standard right now but Saints look like they are building to be a bigger force in coming seasons.Wigan seem to be producing quality youngsters who will improve in coming seasons and Wire always seem ready to go out and spend cash when they need to.Who knows,Salford and the Doc may finally get it right in next couple of seasons and Catalans will get stronger too with the likes of world class talent Carney on board.And what is to say that our true young back line superstars Watkins and Hardaker won't see the writing on the wall the next couple of seasons and take up the challenge of the NRL??

lots to ponder for GH.I know he is a shrewd man and this stuff gets wheeled out every year for ticket sales but the fans can see the writing on the wall and it now comes accross as him burrying his head in the sand.

My current Octavia was purchased new in 2006, lovingly cared for and has so far done 90K faultless miles but now she sits occupying the 2nd car/range extender role while we fight over who gets to drive the Leaf. Ironically I was only 'allowed' to go electric if the Octavia was kept on but now weekends apart I barely get to use it.



I do it partly for the environmental issues, partly for the pleasure of driving past filling stations without even caring about the current cost of dead dinosaurs but mostly it's for the fun of seeing the looks of disbelief on the faces of stunned BMW drivers I've just left standing at traffic lights - unless they're sat in a i3 in which case they've probably smoked me instead.

As we are on the deluded (in the best possible way of course) theme here maybe we're not quite OT....what about "problem-shifting". By solving one issue, do electric cars not create another? And, if so, does this environmental harm then outweigh any advantages? I have read that the "global warming potential" of the process used to make electric cars is twice that of conventional cars.

BUT yes I would more likely buy an electric car to blow away the BMW brigade.....the Ampera is one that looks particuarly interesting to me

I too got the email, and read the identical info in the press release last night.

As a reasonably intelligent person who can think for themselves I can read between the light. Many people aren't and can't.

For me, the countless years in a row that the best squad ever has been trotted out is tiresome, he should at least look to be a bit more creative with the wording.

For me though there is a balance to be set, between being loyal to the old stars who have given us a decade to remember, and the next generation of this team. Cast the stars off once their age sneaks past 30 and what does that say to the next generation about the club rewarding their loyalty. Leave them in place, and you will have to do a mass clearout, and recruitment in a short space of time.

One of the ways to deal with this is to introduce players from the juniors in a gradual manner, so that as experience increases, they take the place of the star as their effectiveness decreases. That is built on the assumption that the new player has potential to be of similar quality to the one they are rrplacing. This is how we were able to deal with the loss of Ellis who was effectively replaced by Ablett.

Regarding the best squad ever, its a standard means to try to eek out a few more season ticket holders, and just keeps it top of mind for people who still want to go, but haven't yet made the purchase.

I would expect another press release in the new year, possibly part way through the season which sets more realistic expectations for the season, once the issue of selling season tickets is irrelevant. Saying that your targets are to win all the trophies is a cliche, but failure to deliver is a real possibility and so it makes a rod for his own back.

As someone who lives a good 70 miles from headingley, the season ticket is never really an option, especially when you look at the state the m1 is on a Friday evening. I think the biggest reason to get one could be social, or it could be that its something you enjoy, and a season ticket makes you go, where picking and choosing would mean you almost never go, even though you enjoy it. They can't even trot out the reason that you get to guarantee a cup final spot, as for the last 4 years there have been empty seats aplenty at both finals

Quote ="nantwichexile"As we are on the deluded (in the best possible way of course) theme here maybe we're not quite OT....what about "problem-shifting". By solving one issue, do electric cars not create another? And, if so, does this environmental harm then outweigh any advantages? I have read that the "global warming potential" of the process used to make electric cars is twice that of conventional cars. BUT yes I would more likely buy an electric car to blow away the BMW brigade.....the Ampera is one that looks particuarly interesting to me'" Even if the environmental impact of making an electric car were twice that of a conventional car how would that look over the car's lifetime? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQpX-9OyEr4 My personal petrol station is in my garage - my electricity comes from 100% renewable sources ie wind and solar. Even if my electricity was supplied by one of the big six it would still come from a variety of sources, not just those reliant on burning planet polluting fossil fuels and fortunately the electric car will quite happily consume via a three pinned plug regardless of it's origin - clean or dirty. The Ampera solves one of the biggest issue of electric car ownership - range anxiety - but does so by carrying around with it three systems that add to the weight and complexity. It's all electric range although limited between 30 and 40 miles depending on driving style and conditions I could live with but the four seat configuration made it a non-starter. If I need to replace the Octavia I'd consider one but as they are being replaced shortly I'd consider it's successor. _____ I think this really is way off topic now and I wouldn't want to distract attention away from the healthy sceptisism being shown towards the CEO and his recent press release.

Quote ="nantwichexile"As we are on the deluded (in the best possible way of course) theme here maybe we're not quite OT....what about "problem-shifting". By solving one issue, do electric cars not create another? And, if so, does this environmental harm then outweigh any advantages? I have read that the "global warming potential" of the process used to make electric cars is twice that of conventional cars. BUT yes I would more likely buy an electric car to blow away the BMW brigade.....the Ampera is one that looks particuarly interesting to me'" Even if the environmental impact of making an electric car were twice that of a conventional car how would that look over the car's lifetime? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQpX-9OyEr4 My personal petrol station is in my garage - my electricity comes from 100% renewable sources ie wind and solar. Even if my electricity was supplied by one of the big six it would still come from a variety of sources, not just those reliant on burning planet polluting fossil fuels and fortunately the electric car will quite happily consume via a three pinned plug regardless of it's origin - clean or dirty. The Ampera solves one of the biggest issue of electric car ownership - range anxiety - but does so by carrying around with it three systems that add to the weight and complexity. It's all electric range although limited between 30 and 40 miles depending on driving style and conditions I could live with but the four seat configuration made it a non-starter. If I need to replace the Octavia I'd consider one but as they are being replaced shortly I'd consider it's successor. _____ I think this really is way off topic now and I wouldn't want to distract attention away from the healthy sceptisism being shown towards the CEO and his recent press release.

The top clubs were better, the poorer clubs were poorer.

There has, in my opinion, been somewhat of a levelling down caused by the salary cap.

I think if you put teams 1,2,3,4 in 2004 up against teams 1,2,3,4 in 2014 the 2004 teams would win fairly comfortably. I think if you put teams 12,11,10,9 in 2014 up against their 2004 counterparts, the 2014 clubs would win massively. The lower reaches of the league were appalling back then, even the mid table sides were a country mile back from the top clubs.

As for GH's statement, is he massively wrong? Going in 2004 nobody thought we would be as dominant as we were, there were huge questions and we were still very young and filling some places with some pretty average players, 2005-2006 we didnt win anything,

Next year i think Cuthbertson will add something, he is a decent player, plus we have a very deep squad. Perhaps some individuals arent as good as they were but it has been a long time since we could look at so much experience and depth in my view.

I think this squad might surprise a few people next year. Sinfield getting a proper pre season under his belt could be like a new player.

Edit: on top of Cuthbertson coming in, there is Baldwinson coming back (it was apparently a disaster of epic proportion to lose him, but barely mentionable to bring him back) another year for Singleton, Ward, Mincella, Sutcliffe, R Ward, Walters Mulhern etc, we might even get something out of Andy Yates.

Whoops, mea culpa - yes it's a Superb & it lives up to it's name.
I went all the way to Wembley sitting in the back & it was one of the most comfortable car journeys I've ever made as a passenger.

It's time GH got some fresh "PR" ideas this is far from being the "best squad ever" and to ignore changes for another year is just putting more pressure on the end of 2015 when wholesale changes will be required!
Although Club Legends nay in some cases Immortals they on a rapid downward spiral and its obvious the likes of Kirke & Bailey are not good enough to take up more of the responsability!
Cuthbertson potentially is a good signing but then again where is he gonna play and how long for?
The H/B pairing has shown this year it isn't consistent enough to last a full season and we still have issues at 9 both in quality and how they are utilised.
The Coach hails his "machines" but they failed their M.O.T's miserably during the latter stages of the regular Season indeed for at least the last 2 months minimum.
My genuine response to most of GH's E-mail is "Get Fckuked yer having laugh mate" the loyalty card has been played rightly over the years but letting them all get old and fizzle out together is criminal .
Also there needs to be a different approach to selection etc so hopefully a new assistant Coach will add new ideas and convince the untouchable Mc.D that he shouldn't have so many "undroppables".

TBF there is still a good chance of us picking up silverware next year but IMHO it will be the last time this will be the case under current playing staff and coaching team.Who knows what has been said behind the scenes? Maybe Mac has voiced his concerns to GH about the need to move players on but has been rebuked.ATEOTD, Mac has won 2 SL titles a WCC and a CC in 4 years at the helm (as long as any top coach gets these days),he will be fine when his time comes to an end(probably end of next year)for us so 1 more year with this settled squad still in the hunt for silverware probably suits him fine.

The bigger picture looks quite grim at the minute though.What quality coach is going to want to take on the role of shooting bambi on a mass scale whilst not being fully backed by the CEO?

Francis Cummins?

He seems to like a challenge.

Remodelling Leeds under any circumstances would be a cakewalk compared to Bradford.

“And I firmly believe we will have our best-ever squad ready to meet this challenge and play together for the last time."

Now if you read that another way, he perhaps isn't saying "we will have our best ever squad" meaning the 2015 squad will be the single best year squad we've ever had.

He perhaps is saying "we will have our best ever squad" which is what Sinfield, Peacock and co. have been for Leeds for 10 years now as will go down as in history as....."ready for the challenge of going one last time"......the one last time part points to him talking about the squad in more than just a single season way.

By the way, some of you lot need to cheer up big time, I'm surprised some of the people on here don't slit their wrists upon hearing any mention of the words "rugby" "league" "leeds" or "rhinos"

................

As for the difference in quality thing. Several months ago I posted the team line-ups for the all the opposition who visited Headingley in 2004 and some are really bad. Obvious better teams to what they have now were Bradford and Hull. Saints team was better but the 2014 team isn't exactly too bad. Wigan are better in 2014, as clearly are the Hudds, Wire, Cas and Salford teams that came to us in 2014. London we're by default better but it wasn't exactly a great line-up and Wakey and Widnes you could argue about level but I'd say the 2014 line-ups would edge it.

Looking back at them something caught my eye about a point raised the other week about playing guys out of position when they first break into the team. Whilst it didn't happen against us, James Roby played 2 games on the wing for Saints in 2004 including a playoff defeat vs Wigan.

So he's basically saying next season is the last hurrah for the golden generation. Winsomething next season it'll be your last chance with leeds.

That has to be the most ridiculous comment I have heard GH come out with.
His he trying to tell me the teams of 07 & 08 with top class players like Senior, Donald, Webb, Lauitiiti plus Maguire, Burrow, Sinfield, JJB, Peacock, Kylie, Bails at the peak of their powers would be not match for the class of 2015. Lost a lot of respect for him now. A man who has just seen the season ticket sales and is panicking.

It's a load o bo!!!ocks anyway. I haven't heard Sinny, McGuire, JJB, Burrow, or Bailey talking about retiring at the end of next season. If they all joined Peacock and Kylie what would we be putting out on the field? Outside backs would be okay, but beyond that? Last chance to see the "Legends"? Do they not realise that by flogging once great players well beyond their retirement time there is a very real danger all we will remember of the likes of Danny Mcguire will be a portly sloth who can't keep up with play. JJB has gone from the heart, spirit and soul of a great team to a gaff prone penalty machine in the minds of some fans and Bailey's actually becoming the pantomime baffoon other clubs fans have been bagging for a decade.

Do we actually ahve anything exciting waiting to be unleashed when these guys do finally make way? Or is our next first team currently on loan and struggling to make it into Bradford and London's reserves?

This is the flaw in marketing it as "roll up, roll up, come see these specimens before they disappear forever" - you actually end up (as a new ticket holder) potentially seeing a poorer version and thus actually less likely to "be remembering them in 50 years". You'll more think, "well, what was all the fuss about"? For instance, having had a season ticket for just 2 years, I will remember and appreciate JP more for 2013 than 2014. But I suspect some of you longer-termers might remember the 2010 or 2011 with more fondness.

In reality, if the 2015 versions of these guys are all you see, will you actually rave on about them in the future? I love Sinners; this started probably around '05 / '06 when I had been at uni in Leeds a couple of years, watched on TV and he never seemed to miss his kicks. I remember saying to friends then and now that if I had my last tenner and had to choose between Sinfield making a conversion or Big Al (Shearer) who I saw weekly, first hand for 6 years scoring a penalty, my impression was that Sinners was the safer bet to put my money on.

Watching him live in 2013 I realised he does miss and wasn't a machine, but still idolise and love him because of what I saw before from afar. 2014 overall was noticeably average compared to 2013. If 2015 and then 2016 continue that way, I will have to think back to make myself remember why I idolised him, as the reality will be that for 3 consecutive years I watched my once superman become average and unspectacular.

Now, if all I saw of someone like him was 2015 or 2016 I wouldn't have that 'memory bank' to fall back on and miss what the fuss was about. Better to rue something good ending a season too soon, than 2 years of seeing it slowly rot away in front of your eyes.

Seriously though how many single cell organisms does GH think he has on the fan base for them to buy this diatribe about 2015?

I guess we'll find out with season ticket sales, right guys?

He he

Two Words. Ellery Hanley.

Was good for Leeds, but was great for Wigan and they knew when to get rid.

I'm not joking, anyone who falls for this laughable marketing guff deserves to be fleeced.

It's the last time you can see them purely because JP (37 when it all kicks off) is retiring. That's all it amounts to.

This team badly needs strengthening particularly with a longer season and a more intense in that league campaign looming. And Adam Cuthbertson is no work-horse front-rower either.

5th might be regarded as an optimistic view considering the 6th placed finish in a weaker competition this time. I expect Catalan, Hull and Salford (all below us) to be MUCH stronger in 2015.

The clean-sweep he talks of was there for the taking this year....until someone took their eye off the ball and gifted 4 points to the two relegated teams.

Stability is bollox - look at Arsenal, same coach for years seldom win anything, Fergie was successful because he was prepared to make very difficult decisions about star players e.g. Beckham - neither GH or McDermott are prepared to do that. Fergie would not have retained Sinfield, McGuire, JJB, Bailey etc.

I would be prepared to place a sizeable bet that Peacock is still trotting around in 2016.

Look at the NRL how many coaches stay anywhere longer than 3/4 years? There is only so many times the same group of players can respond to the same message - either change the coach or the players.

The core of the group is in decline and you have an owner and a coach who don't have the balls to make the changes that are required to maintain the highest levels of quality.

The fact the owner is spouting this rubbish must question his credibility or his belief in the gullibility of the fans.

Problem is there will still be plenty of gullbility....and, as with many things in life (typified by religion), people will believe what they [i[uwant[/u[/i to believe

I certainly wouldn't want too many people to see the likes of JP in the same way I saw Atkinson and co when I started watching in 1981.

I agree that the side does seem to need freshening up a bit. In recent years Leeds have missed a trick in not providing better backup to the quality players we have, particularly in the pack. Being brutal, and with the benefit of hindsight, we could have seen Kirke, Clarkson and Bailey already replaced. We would then not be in a situation where we may have to replace 'just' JP and Leuluai at the end of next year, but those two plus at least one of Kirke and Bailey.

I do have a couple of caveats to the need for a complete overhaul though.

Firstly, the side did win the CC, and quite easily - beating Sts and Wire convincingly on the way. IMO they are still not that far off being able to compete all year. The squad may need fewer new faces than we might think to have a real stab at 2015.

Secondly, we simply won't be able to replace star players like for like. We may be able to get a very good prop to come in when JP retires, but it still won't be JP circa 2007. Neither would Sinfield or McGuire's replacements be younger versions of them - most would be poorer versions of their younger selves.

We are also in a salary cap universe. Even if they were available, we wouldn't be able to sign the best replacements from other clubs for Burrow, Sinfield, McGuire, JP etc, especially when so many of the squad have remained at Leeds for less than they could have got elsewhere. Bought in players would have no such in-built loyalty, and would rightly compare offers from different clubs in monetary terms as much as anything else. You could even argue that letting a few players go on a bit too long is the price the club has been willing to pay for its success over the last decade.

Finally, a real question remains over how the squad (whoever is in it) is used next year. At some stage the coach has to actually give fringe players a real go - not 5 minutes at the fag end of a match but starting, e.g. with JP on the bench. Will Cuthbertson be used like Achurch or push Leuluai for a starting spot for example? Nobody should be unsure about how good a player with 50+ appearances is (or could be), and faster decisions can be made about whether to retain them or not.

I do understand what GH is saying. Its interesting to make the comparisons he does though - the Revie-era Utd team fell to bits and Man Utd have also lost the aura they had under Ferguson. Hopefully he'll manage it better than Leeds Utd did.

Funny thing is, William used a term like "single cell organisms" to aim at the apparent sheep like Leeds fans who'll keep supporting the term.......yet you, Nantwich and Jamie have then, like sheep, copied his usage of those three words in the belief that you are distancing yourself from being sheeplike.

Irony is a f**ker ain't it.