But you are using the stats to judge him

No I used the average stats over a long period of time. That way they do not lie. You would also expect that someone playing for the best defensive side in the league, wouldn't be anywhere near the worst in the league in that particular function in his position.

The fact is he misses a shocking amount of the tackles he attempts. And he consistently makes a high amount of handling errors.

How dare you ... But then why advocate the "WBW" playing in the forwards if his tackling ability is woeful. ?

So you are using stats to judge him then!

Stats even over a long period of time can be misleading . Especially opta stats and missed tackles. Especially for a winger where the mistake is often made infield. Not looking at any stats at all just watching games there are worse defensive wingers out there

That is an extremely naive and incorrect view. It would be right over one match, over two matches. Over four seasons however tells you it is consistent, and therefore the stats tell the whole story. Remember here I am talking about one area of his game only.

............

Thanks for backing me up.

I've always said Ryan Hall was rubbish.....

Your the only one then.

His poor tackling and handling errors are terrible Gotcha

Pfft rubbish

Stats like these never tell the full story. The only stats that tell the full story are records ie in 2012
We
Won x amount of games

Let's be honest here for me a winger you don't expect to make 20/30 tackles a game you expect them to score tries

Hall has certainly done that over the years so no probs from me

No you don't. Unless your side is poor across the park, then your winger will probably be making more tackles. However, and this is the bit Ferdy, is missing, is that when your winger is called upon to make a tackle that it is successful.

Hall, on a continuous basis, is missing one in every three tackles he attempts. That is a poor success rate, whether winger or any other position. And that is the only point being made. In comparison to all the wingers in super league, he has the poorest return on effective tackles. That is not subjective, it is there in black and white.

Ferdy had I said Ryan Hall was a poor winger on it's own, then you would be correct to comment that the stats don't tell the full story. I didn't I said defensively, stats wise, he was the worst winger, and when you look at that over a long period it doesn't change. There is nothing exceptional skewing the figures, it is consistent.

So you'd drop Hall then for his defensive frailties?

If the stats could be trusted then you probably would have a point, but it's how these are gathered I do not trust. I have seen people credited with the missed tackle of others. If the two outside defenders don't do there job leave the winger isolated trying to defend an overlap and "misses" a tackle which in all honesty the issues have been created in field. The gathering of the stats is subject to error and subjectivness which is why I don't see how you can rely just on stats. Don't think hall is the best defender but there are a few I would prefer him to in defence

Due to the fact that some of you Rhinos fans clearly don't appreciate Ryan Hall's abilities I am now going to take this matter up in the morning on your behalf with Mr Hetherington

I will be requesting that your club deem it necessary to immediately release him from his present contract and transfer him to the mighty Saints



Make no wonder you lot are called Whinos

"There are three types of lies

Lies, damm Lies & statistics"

Benjamin Disraeli

I forgot to add that Ryan also looks 3 stone over weight

looks like you also forgot to keep up with the news about Halls weight too

Looks like you reply to posts before you read all the previous ones

And I would agree with you if we were looking at one match in isolation, or even one month of games to be generous.

The difference is, look at every game over last four years. He consistently misses 33% of the tackles he attempts. That is the difference here, and it is overlooked because of his other qualities.

I am not saying to not overlook those other qualities, I am simply saying as a winger he is a poor defender and worse than the others in the completion.

I have just noticed Nantwich question also. So to answer. I don't think Hall has a problem in front on tackling. His problem lies with change of direction and speed of thinking. I don't think he would have those failings in the middle of the pitch. But that is purely an opinion, not the facts that the stats show.

2010 = 101 tackles 20 missed
2011 = 90 tackles 25 missed
2012 = 113 tackles 19 missed (BJB 74 & 24)
2013 = 75 tackles 29 missed

So not really close to 33% is it really, nearer 20% in reality.

Also how many wingers have two halfbacks defending next to them in the line?

2013 When some would have you believe he was "the best winger in the World," it was first noted the amount of timber our chunky winger had piled on, and the missed tackle ratio was closer to 38% .

Coincidence?

Or a more sensible suggestion.

In 2010 we had Diskin and Buderus defending in the middle, we had the latter in 2011, we had Lunt in 2012. Whereas in 2013 McShane got limited games and game time and saw us have the two halves defending on one side more often than not with both Burrow and McGuire on the left hand side that Hall occupies. If people want to think a winger won't have more missed tackles when he has 2 small halves on his side of the pitch then so be it.

Note some of them Saints tries/no try in the 2nd half, they came from players getting drawn in as the original problem started in the hooker-less middle of the pitch.

But that would be too sensible a suggestion.

The suggestion has some merit, and is a very worthwhile counter argument, and some truth to it at times.

However, this season we are the best defensive side by a mile, and the halfs you talk of our doing a decent defensive stint, so personally I would refute your counter argument as just excusing Hall's flaws again.