Richards has never fully recovered his pace after that bad achilles injury he picked up in the Grand Final last year.

Agreed....

In defence of Pat, he has had no pace all season since that achilles injury in the GF last season. Speaking as someone who snapped his at Taekwondo 3 years ago, its a bloody awful injury... (I am in my 50's tho). I would expect him to be quicker next season.

There was a bit of a sense of 'changing of the guard' in some areas. Webb was poor, Buderus looks shot - certainly not a patch on the player he was. Of the underperforming older players only McGuire deserves benefit of the doubt as he still looks to be less than 100% fit (I really hope he does come back because last year he was terrific at times). I will say McGuire needs to work on his defence though. His goal-line efforts are really poor. Lockyer is no bigger than him yet nobody expects to run over the top of him - its down to technique and effort, and in Lockyer's case a real determination not to be the weakest link.

You would be under that ball 20 times and drop it 20. I was sat just behind Webb when he caught that. It moved horribly just before it hit him. Horror show of a ball to catch.

Webb got hammered by Leuluai earlier on & never recovered after that.

Yeah he's all class and looks as though he plays effortlessly, great news for England and he has to play in readiness for next years world cup. Charnley is not quite ready yet but probs should get a squad place if he is to make the step up for 2013.

I don't think Richards has been the same player since his injury. He's lost at least a yard of pace and really enjoyed seeing BJB rip it up against him this season.

From what I've seen of Charnley he is......he, BJB, T.Briscoe, Watkins and (sad to admit) both Tomkins brothers should all be regulars.

Joel surprises more and more that he appears to have the attributes to be a fine English centre - but guess that doesn't say that much considering the available options

...a real problem area. Hopefully Watkins (and Briscoe) can grow sufficiently into the permanent roles for future years.

Is Charnley being groomed for a centre role at Wigan ?

Hes still one of the best wingers in SL, strong, defensively sound, great threat in the air as-well, that said he has lost some pace and may never recover it after his injury.



Maybe yes, i see that as his long term position, with Joel moving back to the second row next season, its a really crucial position for me though as in the modern game a classy centre can bag a winger 20+ tries a season, even if he is average (see Riley, D.Hodgson, Goulding etc)

That's what happens when you put faith in these young and/or inexperienced players (Jones-Bishop representing the latter) but how exciting is it to watch.

I agree with Juan's contributions on this thread.

What about his effort in the final 30 seconds of the first half and it was on. Reminded me of a Lee Smith effort in a similar situation in a Grand Final.

Don't shackle it, encourage it.

Leeds have an ageing squad and the years have now caught up with a few.
Next season surely is the time BJB, Watkins, Smith, Hardaker & Clarkson start games with the likes of Webb, Delaney, Leuluai etc being the guys considered for the bench places.
Those younger players have the talent and need regular starting game experience. McDermott & GH have to make the right decisions on signings too over the next few months. The Leeds pack needs new men in there.

we will have. Moore & Griffin

The value in retaining Webb and Leuluai is for their experience. Hopefully they will not be picked week-in and week-out simply because they are the easier option for whoever is the coach. IF Smith and McGuire get back to something like their best, we should have a very quick backline. Whether its physical enough is another question.