Just FYI folks, centres very rarely defend against their opposite number these days. Most teams defend their halfbacks one in from the wing.

So if Leeds go with McGuire and Burrow from the start, they'll be defending against Tomkins and Carmont respectively. Cause for optimism there - no, really...

Id back Burrow against anybody when it comes to tackling. Mags still has a habit of sliding off it, a bit like Jessica Simpson in the Dukes of Hazard doing her washing the car routine.

I would seriously consider finding a way to put Burrow on S. Tomkins watch. He has enough foot speed and tackling technique to keep the shackles on him. The trouble is, because Tomkins joins the attack from full back, it's a bit hard to predict where he'll pop up... I have an impression that he has a particular liking for getting outside a defender on Wigan's right, I haven't studied enough footage to know whether that's a correct impression.

I think it's wrong to say that if you stop Tomkins you stop Wigan. It would help though.

I think Zak is well equipped to deal with anything thrown at him in the centres. He is a good defender and has shown composure at SL level. Plus he has pace to burn. He is gathering experience there in Academy. Admittedly it is risky chucking him in at Wembley, but he has never looked like the deer in headlights in the past.

Is Watkin's very doubtful for Saturday? I won't try to pick centres if both Ablett and Watkin's are out because McDermott will pick the total opposite. I think Leeds need to avoid kicking to Tomkin's and if they do, then he needs to be hit as soon as he catches the ball. Tomkin's chimes into the line often as third receiver, normally through behind balls. Leeds need to utilise an umbrella D in my opinion. To force them down the middle as Carmont is also a large threat.

In the NRL you'll generally see centres outside halfbacks in defence. If not it says a lot about some players' tackling.

While you are correct to point that out Mr Gilder, it's also worth pointing out that the half back in the centre position will take their position based on the centre, if that positioning and spacing is wrong and poor decisions made by the centre then it leads to a whole host of problems.

If Tomkins loops round the back of the line like he is liable to do and joins in around third man in, then whoever plays centre needs to be really on the ball and be watching him joining in to the line! If they don't, then Tomkins, the centre and winger will all have a field day!

I know the final is not the time or place but do Leeds not have any good up and coming Centres in the youth system???

Surely we could have given game time to these during this SL campain, against Salford, etc etc

Or are we and Old first team with no qualilty in the youth system for back up ??

And for the record, for me Smith has to play, he's proven time and time again that he can play in the big games and on the big stage!!

Don't get me started.



Looking at Delaney's most recent stats I don't know how we can manage in the forwards without him

Hardaker AND Wilson to centre then

I know. I mean how can any team expect to win trophies with players like Burrow and McGuire in the defensive line.........................

Correct.

Two years ago.

Indeed.

One of my constant bugbears with the Sky coverage is Stevo's insistence that every winger who isn't stood right on the whitewash marking his opposite number is "out of position".

He's usually crashed in because his centre has gone in and if the winger fails to follow suit it leaves huge gap between the two.

What Wigan don't tend to do very often on that play where Tomkins loops around is use him as a decoy and hit a short, flat ball to the runners. If you see Tomkins chiming into the line it usually means he's the intended receiver and you can pay minimum attention to the decoy runners in front of him.

However Leeds choose to defend it, they need to be off the line quickly and closing down the thinking time for Deacon, Finch and Tomkins. The first two or three steps need to be forward, then decide whether you are coming up and in or sliding depending on the numbers.

Im sure you wont be surprised to know I disagree with you AG.

Its a common feature of the game these days that the defending winger is stood well inside his opposite number. What would happen if the winger moved out and stood opposite his winger? What is wrong with the winger giving his centre a god bolloxing and telling him to move out, thus dragging the whole line out a bit?

If your very quick you can afford to give your winger a bit of room in an attempt to keep things tight. I for one though would not fancy us giving Charnley much room on Saturday. Im not a huge fan of the lad but he can shift.

You need to defend from the middle outwards, otherwise there are gaps. Its better to have a gap out wide, where a player has to be found with a long pass (or quick hands), and mistakes can be made, than to let a player just walk through a gap and blame someone inside of you for not making the gap smaller

Agreed. But then you leave the gap out wide and you are also open to a player joining the line and getting out numbered while there is a lot of field still out wide.

Dont get me wrong, I dont have the answer and its a rock and a hard place.

Most teams defend from the inside out, the idea being that it keeps the middle of the field solid and forces the opposition to move the ball out wide and try to beat you on the outside with skill rather than being able to steamroller you down the middle.

If you've got equal numbers, there's no problem with the centre staying on his man and the winger staying on his.

Where numbers are unequal however, say where the full back comes into the line to make the extra man, then your winger and centre need to keep together. Otherwise if the centre goes up and in to try to prevent the ball coming wide and the winger just stands on his man, there is going to be a huge gap between the two for someone coming into the line to exploit. It's why having your full back come into the line often creates an overlap for the winger, because his opposite number has to follow his centre and slide inside to cover the runners.

According to Twitter, Watkins in '50-50' for the final and his knee is 'improving'.

Next they'll be saying that Keith will be lining up too.

Watkins is out. If they manage to carry him onto the pitch it will be a total joke. Pray they've learnt their lesson from when they wheeled keith out against Hull.

Quote ="Fallon"Next they'll be saying that Keith will be lining up too. Watkins is out. If they manage to carry him onto the pitch it will be a total joke. Pray they've learnt their lesson from when they wheeled keith out against Hull.'" Perhaps things are looking up? www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 51,00.html

Quote ="Fallon"Next they'll be saying that Keith will be lining up too. Watkins is out. If they manage to carry him onto the pitch it will be a total joke. Pray they've learnt their lesson from when they wheeled keith out against Hull.'" Perhaps things are looking up? www.skysports.com/story/0,19528, ... 51,00.html

Sounds a little bit more positive today about both Watkins and Ablett, and to be fair we have some superb medical staff at Leeds, who will work tirelessly to get both fellas right for Saturday if possible. However, if not, clearly the lesson must be learned from the Senior saga in the final against Hull. You cannot hope to beat Wigan if you go into the Final "carrying" anyone.

I twisted my knee last season, it was swollen and bruised and I was put on crutches, I was able to walk on it fine within 2/3 days and if I had of had the quality of medical staff with me that Rhinos will have I could have played the following week I feel. It all depends on the extent of the twist. I have twisted my knee where it has put me out of action for numerous months. Hopefully he got a minor twist. The twisted knee that injured me for a couple of days was far more painful than the knee twist that put me out for months, so don't be shocked if he has a chance of playing.

Hmmmm, it seems to me that the article is saying its good news Watkins doesnt need surgery. Thats great news long term but suggests how serious the injury is that they were even talking about it.

I hope they are both fit, and ablett sounds like he will be, but its very touch and go for Watkins. If there is any doubt they must not play him.

If Watkins does play and does go off injured it won't be the end of the world. Delaney simply goes to centre, Sinfield reverts to loose forward (Presuming Mac will continue to play Sinfield at 6 and bench Burrow or McGuire). Sure its far from ideal but it won't exactly screw us up big time. We'll be a forward light but JJB and JP, who have both had a weeks rest, can do a full 80.

I would disagree. Its bad for three reasons, none of which you have considered;
1. If he goes of with the same injury that would suggest he wasnt fit in the first place. If he isnt fit then there is a good chance he would not have been at his best. We cant carry people in a game like this, we will get punished.
2. We lose a player meaning we only have three fit players on the bench. Wembley is a big ground, this is a big game and I bet it s roasting hot. Its going to be very energy sapping out there.
3. Finally, and most importantly, playing a player who has an injury can, in a worse case scenario, cause more damage longer term for the player.

Its simply not worth the risk when we have Delaney, Smith, Hardaker who can all play there.