I think someone earlier in this thread (or possibly another one) quoted McDermott as saying that Burrow was on the bench because he has played a lot of game time this year.

If he is resting players for matches like this then doesn't it say that he feels it was a game we couldn't win so no point risking injuries? Surely we want all our best players on the pitch for as long as possible against the top teams. If anyone needed resting they should have been subbed early last week.

And please please please start with Ali on the bench not on the pitch. Surely last week against Quins showed he is miles better coming on against tired defences rather than starting.

If that's the case then lets see if he drops all the players last night who gave away penalties for back chatting the ref. Could be an interesting 17 next week!

I sky + the game as well and watched it this morning. Think it was eddie who mentioned robbie was rested as he had played lot of game time this year

That's a question well worth raising.

Is SL a 4-team competition this season rather than a 5-team competition?

The bookies still think it's a 5-team competition.

[uLatest SL odds[/u:
WIGAN 11/8
WARRINGTON 15/8
ST HELENS 5/1
LEEDS 9/1
HUDDERSFIELD 10/1

*** DAYLIGHT***

THE RABBLE 40/1 TO 1000/1

[uCC odds[/u:
WARRINGTON 13/5
WIGAN 3/1
ST HELENS 7/2
LEEDS 13/2
HUDDERSFIELD 13/2

***DAYLIGHT***

THE RABBLE 14/1 TO 40/1

OT but those are crazily short odds for Wigan and long for Huddersfield. Are Wigan really over 7 times more likely to win it than Huddersfield?

You'd have to be mental (or a Wiganer: the two groups intersect) to back Wigan at those odds. Buy Huddersfield now & lay if you want when the odds come in.

Good odds for hudds

There's no way your still in that league sweetcorn, me thinks your team of old men and crocks are soon to become part of THE RABBLE.

Welcome

Got to be a 4 team comp this year now, especially if we lose Friday to saints.

leeds rhinos management have been too complacement. smith and the first two years of bluey were great. it was obvious to all we needed to go back to a top class technical coach and we needed to start and replace ageing players with younger class players.
instead GH has sat on his laurels, looked at the big crowds rolling in, at the corporate side which is a huge profit maker, maybe even the RU side i don't know, and taken his eye of the ball.
the appointment of the chuckle brothers was a joke as was the recruitment.
hetherington must bite the bullet, get rid of the two idiots in charge and write the season off.
bring in someone experienced, a murray or a lang, to not only run the side but to identify who needs replacing with who and to sort out a new coach. a coach who will be the right choice

If the season is deemed a write off do you think GH would be that Ruthless?
I thought he would in the past but i just don't get that impression he would be with Mcdermott and Lowes.
With all the speculation surrounding Buderus going home but he seems keen to stay here maybe some sort of coaching role is in the pipeline for him!!
I hope he (Mc) turns it around i really do but that selection of the 17 on friday was baffling at best given that young Macca ,Biffa and Clarkson were'nt inured.
I think that Mc may keep his job if the GH shows inten re-squad recruitment/retention and lest him have a say in it.

i would get mate, he's simply not up to the job

In an ideal world you would have a squad with a mix of youth and experience, some good young local lads coming through, and a coach that can gel it all together. You would change 2 or 3 players per year, and all of your overseas quota players would be good enough to play every week, and make a difference.

We currently have a squad with a mix of players who are too old but some good young local lads coming through and a coaching team who appear to be making the team worse not better. We need at least 5 or 6 new players for next season (which will bring problems in itself) and at least 2 of our overseas quota players are not good enough to get in the team never mind make a difference.

So what do we do? We appoint a coach who has great experience and can bring with him one or two top grade players. We ditch the older players who are on the slide, and focus on getting the next generation ready to really challenge in 2 years time. If the new coach is an older one like Murray or Lang, then part of their role is to put in place a genuine succession plan for their replacement in 2 or 3 years time.

Without wishing to sound arrogant, anything outside the top 4 should be considered failure for Leeds, and should cost the coach his job.

That would also be considered a failure by Wigan, Saints, Warrington and Huddersfield though. So that's five teams for four spots, with one to sack their coach.
20% of teams changing their coach is probably less than normal though.

I agree with most of this BR but i don't think we need to bring 5/6 players from outside when we have players like Watkins ,Bjb,Hardaker ,Amor ,Ambler and looking further down the line the likes of Wilson ,Hood ,Singleton and Stewart who will be worth a chance at SL over the next couple of years.
I honestly think we need to bring in 3 STARTERS and then the youngsters need the chance to get more games.
I do however agree that 5th should see Mc and Lowes gone but like i posted above will GH be ruthless enough.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear, we need to replace 5 or 6 members of the first team squad. Some of those replacements could well come from inside the club already. If the youth system is working properly, you should get at least 2 additional squad players from it every year.

Sorry mate i read it as needing 5/6 new signings.

I'd tee up John Lang as coach for the next two seasons, with a remit to bring on the youngsters and revamp the side - with full backing in terms of ignoring the reputations of anybody within the squad (possibly a few too many comfortable players there). If it worked out and he wanted to stay then great, if not at least we could plan for succession properly.

We need to get rid of some of the dead wood at the end of this season. Hauraki should be shipped off if at all possible. Cross I'd offer around as well. Whilst I don't like the number of overseas players in SL, its absolute madness to have two players taking up quota spots who can't make the first team when everyone is fit. You'd be better off without them and giving their squad places to 17 year olds who could improve.

As for the rest, being realistic we simply can't get rid of 5 players and expect to replace them with better ones. A decision should be made on Senior - if he stays it should be made clear that Watkins is going to get first crack at left centre. If he's not happy with that then he should look elsewhere. Not entirely sure about some of the others but a lot depends on if anybody better is available. I don't think we need as big an overhaul as some might think if we get the right coach.

One other thing is that GH ought to hand over the reins regarding signings to someone else. Our last three overseas players - Delaney, Cross and Hauraki - have been poor. Delaney was signed as a centre not as a second row, so even if he works out there, his actual signing was a failure IMO. Hauraki I have some sympathy with on the basis of being a gamble, but its failed and he should be released. Only GH appears to have ever thought Cross would be any good.

When you add to that the failure to replace Ellis (Buderus may be good but he's not actually a second rower) and the shambles with Eastwood (although I suspect Bluey was at least as much to blame there) we really don't have a great record over the past few seasons.

If you look at our squad as it stands for next season (ignoring Senior, Cross and Hauraki), I'd argue we still have a reasonable side in there somewhere - Ablett, Ambler, Bailey, Buderus, Burgess, Clarkson, Hall, Hardaker, JJB, BJB, Kirke, Lautiti, Leuluai, McGuire, McShane, Peacock, Pitts, Sinfield, Smith, Watkins, Webb. Even if a couple go and are replaced from outside, there's enough of a squad there to make a fist of it next year IMO - with the right coach.

I really don't understand why gh does the signings! For me the manager should say I want that player and then gh tries to sign that player. Not we need a centre and gh signs who he wants.

As seen a Chelsea in football on occasion roman abramovic has signed some player that he wanted and they have very rare worked out.

Because coaches, on the basis that they can be sacked at any time and rarely last more than three or four years anyway, will always take a very short term view.

I can see your point but it is not a great situation to have people being bought in that you don't want.

They'll have a say, but not the say.

Let's be realistic here.

If Leeds had been coached by a cyborg incorporating the best parts of Tony Smith, Wayne Bennett, Jack Gibson and Frank Stanton, they still wouldn't have got close to beating Warrington on Friday.

Prior to the game, if you'd asked any unbiased observer of the season so far to pick a combined XIII from the two clubs then probably two, maybe three Leeds players would have made the cut.

Warrington are individually and collectively a much better side than Leeds in 2011. Laying the blame for that firmly at the door of a coach who prior to this season had absolutely no influence on key recruitment and retention decisions is like blaming Barack Obama for the US invasion of Iraq.

That's the good part about being CEO though I suppose, you can make all the decisions then put the blame on the coach when they turn out to be stinkers.

Surely the coach and players should still be held responsible for there performance/tactics on the field. BMc has still by many super league teams standards a very good squad that most coach's would kill for his job is to put them together and playing as a TEAM this i believe he hasn't yet done.

My point is should we stay faithful now or like many are saying get rid before things get worse.

Keeping Burrows on the bench for 60mins in a big game just didnt seem like a good solid game plan against a team that would of been hard enough to break down as it is with beep beep on the field for 80 mins.

I was prepared to be patient with our coaching duo, but dropping Clarkson FFS patience wearing very thin now