When i posted not "as effective" above i meant in comparison to his other performances!!

IMO to the pack in general arn't working hard enough. The Leeds forwards including the replacements (good band them

) made about 80 carries compared to Huddersfields 120 (ish). Also Huddersfields 31 extra runs from dummy suggest that Leeds yet again failed to win the collusion and control the play the ball. This is Leeds' biggest problem and shows no sign of improving.

4 carries is pretty poor for someone who lined up at loose forward. Did he stand there at scrums? If so its shocking, as he'd have had the change to get his hands on the ball plenty of times surely

With stats like that from the forwards, it's no great surprise we are getting stuffed regularly at the moment. It's time they rolled their sleeves up and got stuck in...

not kirke's fault if we keep knocking on before it's his turn to run it in

Bailey was at fault for the 1st try, end of. Burrow made tackle and Bailey stepped to the right on the line leaving a gap you could drive an bus through. 2nd try he put in a disgrace of an attempt to tackle one on one and tried again and still missed. He was sent off through sheer childishness unneccessary.
I would drop Kirke and Hauraki and if Peacock was available Bailey would be in the stands as well.
Kirke and Bailey should be no where near new contracts. They are no better than the youth coming up and they have the potential to improve. I am sick and tired of people saying that Bailey will improve. His figures have hardly been world beating for the last couple of years and his name should be included in the list of players that are shown the door.
2011 Departures
Webb = Replaced by BJB
Kirke = Replaced by Singleton
Senior = Recruit new centre get rid of Delaney into 2nd row
Kylie = Recruit
Ali = Recruit
Bailey = Replaced by Ambler
We need new blood and new attitudes asap

Re-watch the VT Bailey wasn't on our line he was the 2nd marker and his call to go right was the correct one and one we see at nearly every ptb.
Burrow failed to move and it was JjB and the invisible Left hand side defence that left the big hole plus if you watch closely Bailey isn't even aware of the gap directly behind him caused by someone failing to fill in or give him the call!
As for the 2nd try despite his missed tackle early in the play Clarkson and Buderus failed to wrap up man and ball when Griffin off-loaded so that can't soley be Baileys fault.
Now by all means he was far from briliant and the majority of your ins/outs list i comletely agree with but against Wigan and HKR no matter what the figures show he was one of if not the best forward for us and friday was only his 3rd game back.
I will also add that i rate Singleton and Ambler but they haven't shown anything to warrant taking Ryans place in the 17 let alone releasing him.

LO'D's stats are amazing, considering he only played until the 48th minute, despite what's been said about him kissing Bailey's fist he is one hell of a player.

I think when everyone's calmed down and Durham Giant has stopped giving everyone a good laugh that you'll find most Leeds fans would wish they had someone like Luke O'Donnell in our pack right now!

And he dropped it on two of those four carries

I think you are clutching at straws here to be honest. Bailey knew it was his fault, his face and body language gave it away. He was honest enough to show it and he was right. The first was entirely his fault. He had no need to go to the right at all, and no he didn't signal it.

The second and third tries were efforts from him like Senior does, leaving it to others. But unlike Senior Bailey had the balls to show how annoyed and frustrated he was about it.

He was on the end of three hospital passes from Sinfield - sadly a part of Sinfield's game that is not improving.

Open your eyes David. None of those passes were hospital passes. No Surprises for who you are blaming.

I accept that sometimes Sinfield throws out these flat passes that have warning written all over them, most notably usually to JJB. But none of those happend on Friday with Hauraki.

Where else could he go other than right? Burrow would have been in his way if he tried to go to his left.

Of course Bailey is going to hold his hand up and accept responsibility ..... he needs to keep his minder onside.

On another score I really appreciated how Thaler apologised for obstructing Leuluai ...... and then awarding Robinson the try just the same. Nice touch that.

Take off those tinted glasses - Sinfield throws more hospital passes than any other half back in the league. Three of the passes he threw to Huraki were asking for an injury two in the second half were positively dangerous - they were high on his shoulder which means the player has to look away from the defender who is about to flatten him. If that happened in an amateur game I would expect a serious response from the receiver

Sorry David, but only one poster here with tinted glasses when it comes to Sinfield.

I already said, Sinfield throws out some bad hospital passes at times. But none occurred on Friday, and certainly not in Haurakis defence.

We must simply agree to differ - I have never once seen you once suggest Sinfield has ever had anything but an excellent match - and we all know that isn't the case.

You even praised the idiotic drop out that led to Clubb's walk in try against Harlequins - and you say I have tinted glasses!!!

I'll excuse you then, as it is very rare that Sinfield does have anything but an excellent match.



But when it happens I am fair enough to pass comment.




Was you saying the same against Wigan?

If you don’t praise efforts such as the drop out against Quins and criticise instead, I assume you also criticise when such efforts actually come off? If you don’t, then you sir are the definition of a hypocrite.

Sinfield has won countless games from his ability to read a game and create glimpses of brilliance and ingenuity, I trust you look disgruntled when the drop out was regained against Wigan? Or when the chip over to Hall against Warrington was inch perfect?

It’s easy to criticise when something doesn’t come of then praise when it does.

How many of the "positively dangerous" passes did hit get injured by?

I'm sure those stats are wrong! Kirke definitely dropped it more than four times! As for Weller, I think he needs a good week with the tackling bag before they even think about giving him a ball to try and keep hold of!

It's going to be pretty difficult for the stats to be right if everyone uses your interpretation of them.

If Kirke dropped it 4 times, he would have doubled his workload by holding on to the ball...

Come in number 17, your time is up...

Sorry not meaning to be stupid just sarcastic.

You used to defend Bailey by quoting the number of GF rings he had as if this were proof of skill. The same logic can be applied to Kirke who by the way I also have been very critical of in the past. For such a big unit his go forward is terrible.

IMO both Bailey & Kirke are bench players who have been luckly to be in a talented squad for so long. Of the 2 Bailey offers more though.

This season to his credit Bailey has improved his go forward (my main criticism) and Kirke has improved his tackle count (21+ per game)

Astute BB. I was not able to make it and had to rely on radio commentary, Hence I have tried to refrain from making specific comments on this game but have posted regarding the performance over the season so far.

Missing this game however does not mean my points are invalid as they are not based on any games I may have missed live. Also I didn't need to have been at the game to know that Bailey was sent off for violence.

You may dislike stats and I fully agree that they do not tell the whole story. But neither can you dismiss stats as they often tell the truth whereas for example judgement based on a live presence at a game can still be coloured by our predjudices and sometime suspect eyesight!