They deserve an off day, but I hope that they're looking at this season as potentially a very poor one which they can only fix on the field.

It has been evident for some time, as I have previously pointed out, that Leeds are technically deficient at the collision and wrestle with regard to the way referees now interpret the rules. Whilst others, notable Wigan, Saints and Warrington have been well coached on the technical aspects to slow the opposition PTB when defending and then when attacking control going to ground to land on knees elbows/hands and attempt to get back on their feet quickly which makes for a quicker PTB.

On Saturday Warrington wre masters of this area, with quick PTB's they were always on the front foot and they slowed down our PTB's on almost every occasion all to the ref's taste. This must be down to their coaches work on the training field.

Also to consistently win the collision you have to be going forward with some speed. We only have a few players who can do this and sadly 2 of them are injured (3 if JJB is now out) Without JP our go forward game is simply not good enough and our half backs have little chance unless they are on the front foot.

Our current game plan of a flat line of attack means all too often that the player receiving the ball is almost stationary with low metres made forward and many times resulting in being pushed back or silly offloads that go astray.

Some of our players go into the collision leading with the ball carrying arm, as Bailey did when he should have scored. Mathers was able to clamp around the ball early in the tackle - result no try.

I guess Warrington are "splashing mega bucks" right up to the same salary cap as all the other teams, including Leeds.

You are also obviously correct about no talent coming through beneath the first team at Warrington because they have been particularly poor at u20 level this season and have had to pad that team out with upto ten u18's at a time.

Warrington is clearly a club currently in crisis that the back to back winning of their first major trophies for 30+ years cannot disguise.

No question that it's the same for all sides potentially re-salary cap spend but I guess they were referring to the transfer fees recently made available for Richie Myler and Ryan Atkins that other clubs (even Leeds) are reluctant to commit to.

I agree generally though that Warrington are not particularly out of line with the majority of Super League. They have finally invested wisely in the most important signing any club can make, that of head coach and it's no coincidence the progress they are making.

The same can be said of Wigan. Good times.

warringtons youth system is very poor though and i dont see their current success lasting that long, all their best players have been brought in and are getting old.

Watching their u20's destroy ours i think they've got some potential there notably Brooke Broughton who they poached from us and i'm sure 1 or 2 others Bastien took with him.

Leeds should have collected 'a sample' from Jamie Jones' natural father.

It could have proved invaluable for the future production line of rugby talent.

Quote ="marcel"warringtons youth system is very poor though and i dont see their current success lasting that long, all their best players have been brought in and are getting old.'" Here's some links in support of your theory: www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/result ... id=3287539 www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/result ... id=3276955 www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/tables ... uperleague

Quote ="marcel"warringtons youth system is very poor though and i dont see their current success lasting that long, all their best players have been brought in and are getting old.'" Here's some links in support of your theory: www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/result ... id=3287539 www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/result ... id=3276955 www.therfl.co.uk/~therflc/tables ... uperleague

Quote ="Paul Youane"Here's some links in support of your theory: '" He has an image to maintain on Southstander : viewtopic.php?f=17&t=465847&hilit=marcel's+dumbfook+thread

Quote ="Paul Youane"Here's some links in support of your theory: '" He has an image to maintain on Southstander : viewtopic.php?f=17&t=465847&hilit=marcel's+dumbfook+thread

eeerm.....did we ever get an answer to how many collisions Bailley actually won?

They have had far more than their share of off days this season. Being rolled over by Crusaders at home springs to mind. If you are going to have off days you don't want them in cup finals thankyou.

We have been beaten when the opposition forwards put up some resistance down the middle and at times our pack has looked out-enthused. Saturday was a combination of all the things that we have been doing wrong all year, all at the same time.
Clueless attack, no organisation near the opponents line and limited ideas when faced with determined defence - far too often this year we have relied on individual brilliance, or opposition mistakes - rarely do we walk the ball over the line as easily as the opposition seem to do against us. And that brings me onto:
Poor defence on our line. Almost all team have found it relatively easy to score against us from 5 metres out, our line defence is dissorganised and our short kick defence is terrible.
Our points difference this year bears this out - I haven't seen it this poor for a long time. We have rarely had a comfortable win this year.

I have to agree with some posters when I they say that Leeds have appeared tactically less and less astute under Bluey. I don't want to lay into the coach but I also think that hyping the CC every year since he joined us as a "must win" for the club has placed a rediculous amount of mental pressure on the players. How could they walk out on Saturday and play their natural games? You want the pressure off the players and you want them relaxed and motivated. He's done this well with the guys for two GF's, but I think the nature of the playoff series which taked place all in the space of 4 weeks or so is very different to the long drawn out process of the CC format and the weeks (or months) of build up to the final. All that pressure has built in the players, where Warrington looked more relaxed and seemed far more focussed on SL over the last few weeks.

Okay, we were missing JP our best forward, he would have led the Leeds line, and a fit Ali would have given us more attacking options, and if as one poster from Saints rightly pointed out - if some of our guys had gone at the line low (Cliff Lyons wouldn't have been stopped by 10 f******g defenders from 2 yards out at full speed), then who knows? It might at least have been a contest.

Out coached and out played, I now know how Saints fans felt after the 2007 GF.

FWIW I don't think Warrington will make the GF this year. The only thing more mentally draining than losing a CC final is winning one. I genuinely don't understand why they have moved the final to 2 weeks before the playoffs start. I know they have tried it everywhere and nothing seems totally satisfactory, but I'd rather have it a month earlier personally.

A general comment on the game, well, I'm gutted. But that's because I care. The upside is that I have made it through the last 3 winters on the almost Ready-Break glow of 3 fantastic Octobers in a row, the downside is results like those on Saturday rip your insides out. Real fans of all clubs will know what I'm talking about.

Hall missed the initial tackle on Atkins, so it is unfair that Kirke gets all of the blame for that.

I think the game demonstrated how reliant we are on Peacock. Our first choice props for the day (Bailey and Leuluai) were simply not able to step up their games to get the team moving forward. Eastwood was our best prop by a mile. Kirke was Kirke, but then again would he have played if Peacock or a fully fit Lauitiiti had been available?

It will be interesting to see how our pack handles the play-offs.

...and there is a strange thing.

I'm sure you know what I mean when I say that that sort of thing just doesn't go on anywhere else but in sport.

Thinking about it logically Leeds have seven days in which to prepare themselves for Hull and 14 days before they start the play-offs - why should a challenge cup defeat affect those subsequent games and why should a challenge cup win make Warrington put the cue back ont he rack and start planning their winter sun holidays ?

It shouldn't should it, but we all know that it does - why ?

Imagine in your place of work that you've just won a really big order, one that you've been working on for several months, would your boss find it acceptable for you to lose all of your enquiries for the rest of the year, would it be written off as a hangover from the big contract you won in August ?

No of course not, you'd be expected to be back at your desk on Monday with a fresh mind and even more eager to add to your sales figures wouldn't you ?

So why is sport so different ?

It was pretty obvious from the off that Warrington were winning the game up front. Their enthusiasm in defence stopped Leeds getting over the advantage line and that in turn disrupted the rest of the Leeds play.
Whatever gameplan Leeds came out with went out of the window. I was disappointed that Leeds were unable to muscle up and make a game of it. Instead they tried to play without any go forward and that meant they couldn't make any ground or sustain any pressure. It was like watching a side play catch-up football and as the game wore on it became more disjointed and easier to defend against.

Indeed.

The game plan tends to go out of the window when a side hasn't been doing the basics well for a long time - under pressure things more easily fall apart, with very experienced players doing things completely out of character.

I said before that the semi against Sts was actually very poor quality. We let in 28 points against a team with no halfback. Had we played in 'Grand Final' mode they could have been absolutely hammered. Having beaten Wire twice then beating Sts and romping past two very poor teams in Cats and Cas gave everyone a false sense of security.

Exactly. I've seen Leeds play far better in Challenge Cup semi finals that we have lost in recent years. A far cry from some of the rugby we've been playing in previous seasons.

You have to wonder how much this is a factor of Leeds not going out full tilt in the SL on a regular basis. It stands to reason that if you play at a lower standard week-in week-out the ability of the team to step up in the big games will be compromised eventually. This season we have been far too reliant on individual brilliance (including JP leading the pack forward) rather than concerted team effort to win matches. Not only is our attack less effective, our once much vaunted defence is now pretty average by SL standards. I hope Leeds will prove me wrong in the play-offs but there is definitely a hint of 'end of an era' about the club at the moment.