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| Quote ="tvoc"Was it this bit: '"
Was he playing left side, with Senior and Kirke out there too? |
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| Quote ="Richie"Was he playing left side, with Senior and Kirke out there too?'"
At Harlequins McShane was placed where Burrow usually defends, outside the left second row (Kirke) and left centre (Senior) and inside the left wing position (Smith)
McShane was hopelessly lost for Dorn's opener for the Quins and least said about his 'attempt' (I'm being generous describing it as such) on Tony Clubb for Dorn's second the better.
Obviously also taking into account that he was filling in a position he has recently been unaccustomed to at any level let alone 1st grade. |
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| Quote ="tvoc"At Harlequins McShane was placed where Burrow usually defends, outside the left second row (Kirke) and left centre (Senior) and inside the left wing position (Smith)
McShane was hopelessly lost for Dorn's opener for the Quins and least said about his 'attempt' (I'm being generous describing it as such) on Tony Clubb for Dorn's second the better.
Obviously also taking into account that he was filling in a position he has recently been unaccustomed to at any level let alone 1st grade.'"
That at least tells us why he specifically referred to Senior and Kirke then. |
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Quote ="Era of the Biff"Laughing harder at you though.
Mcshane mentions the Hull move as being key as he got first team games, something he couldnt get at Leeds because we'd brought over an overpaid, over the hill hooker to block his path to the first team.
There have been number of comments on here that McShane would benefit from Buderus as Buderus would pass on his vast knowledge. All well and good but patently untrue if McShane was training and playing for Hull. He makes no reference to learning anything from Buderus, preferring to highlight first team games as important ot him. First team games that were being denied him at Leeds.
It's becoming tiresome having to explain things to those who do not have the thought capacity to think outside the box.'"
I personally think that the primary reason for bringing in Buderus was that we wanted to play a 2 hooker system, and Buderus was the best person to be able to fill that need. He was and still is a bloody good hooker. Without the direct question being asked of Paul, I'm not sure anyone is in a position to know how much he has learnt from Buderus (or indeed Diskin or Berrigan), and I doubt if
I personally don't think its reasonable to say that Buderus has been responsible for blocking his route to first team football, as he hadn't made his debut when we signed DB, and spent most of the season injured last year after being in the reckoning for the first team at the start of the year.
So this year he has been restricted to 3 appearances at Leeds, with a good few games under his belt at Hull, I'd say he has missed out on maybe 10 games this season. Hardly being held back now is it?
I think the club are in a much better position to know how ready a player is for SL intensity week in week out, and I'm happy that they follow the tried and tested pattern that has developed so many talented British youngsters.
by the way, I'm still waiting for a response to my question as to why you think Buderus weakens us on the pitch?
viewtopic.php?p=15224600#p15224600 |
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Quote ="Era of the Biff"Laughing harder at you though.
Mcshane mentions the Hull move as being key as he got first team games, something he couldnt get at Leeds because we'd brought over an overpaid, over the hill hooker to block his path to the first team.
There have been number of comments on here that McShane would benefit from Buderus as Buderus would pass on his vast knowledge. All well and good but patently untrue if McShane was training and playing for Hull. He makes no reference to learning anything from Buderus, preferring to highlight first team games as important ot him. First team games that were being denied him at Leeds.
It's becoming tiresome having to explain things to those who do not have the thought capacity to think outside the box.'"
I personally think that the primary reason for bringing in Buderus was that we wanted to play a 2 hooker system, and Buderus was the best person to be able to fill that need. He was and still is a bloody good hooker. Without the direct question being asked of Paul, I'm not sure anyone is in a position to know how much he has learnt from Buderus (or indeed Diskin or Berrigan), and I doubt if
I personally don't think its reasonable to say that Buderus has been responsible for blocking his route to first team football, as he hadn't made his debut when we signed DB, and spent most of the season injured last year after being in the reckoning for the first team at the start of the year.
So this year he has been restricted to 3 appearances at Leeds, with a good few games under his belt at Hull, I'd say he has missed out on maybe 10 games this season. Hardly being held back now is it?
I think the club are in a much better position to know how ready a player is for SL intensity week in week out, and I'm happy that they follow the tried and tested pattern that has developed so many talented British youngsters.
by the way, I'm still waiting for a response to my question as to why you think Buderus weakens us on the pitch?
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| Quote ="leicester_rhino"snip'"
I've already made my feelings known many times. I do not have time nor the inclination to repeat them again.
Feel free to spend your own time looking for them though. |
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used to hate lovejoy me!!
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| Maybe Era of the Biff was referring to this........
Quote It was great to get that first-team action every week. It benefited me a lot and I thought that showed on Saturday, the experience really helped.'"
McShane has been utilised in SL first team rugby the past two seasons. Is it unreasonable to hypothesize that had we not signed Buderus Mclennan could've still used his 2 hooker system, McShane would be further along in his development, the club will have saved an awful lot of £££ and, perhaps most importantly, the club could've used the quota space being taken by Buderus and strengthened elsewhere.
Buderus contributed virtually nothing last year and we did not miss him at all after his injury. He's been up and down this season. I am astonished at how star struck some of our fans are with him. |
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| Quote ="G1"I am astonished at how star struck some of our fans are with him.'"
Are you really G? I'm not. |
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| Quote ="G1"Maybe Era of the Biff was referring to this........
McShane has been utilised in SL first team rugby the past two seasons. Is it unreasonable to hypothesize that had we not signed Buderus Mclennan could've still used his 2 hooker system, McShane would be further along in his development, the club will have saved an awful lot of £££ and, perhaps most importantly, the club could've used the quota space being taken by Buderus and strengthened elsewhere.
Buderus contributed virtually nothing last year and we did not miss him at all after his injury. He's been up and down this season. I am astonished at how star struck some of our fans are with him.'"
You think some are biased towards Buderus. Others might say you're biased against him.
Buderus' class cannot be denied.
However you might be right in your analysis with regards to McShane....so why do [iyou[/i think the club actually signed him ?? Be honest. |
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Quote ="G1"the club will have saved an awful lot of £££ and, perhaps most importantly, the club could've used the quota space being taken by Buderus and strengthened elsewhere.'"
The quota was set at 8 for the 2009 season www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=346. Leeds, including Buderus and Eastwood, had a total of 6 overseas trained (and I presume a number of those would have been candidates to be removed from the 'quota' should the players involved wished to do so.)
Where did Buderus' signing put pressure on Leeds' recruitment in relation to the existing quota spots available? |
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Quote ="G1"the club will have saved an awful lot of £££ and, perhaps most importantly, the club could've used the quota space being taken by Buderus and strengthened elsewhere.'"
The quota was set at 8 for the 2009 season www.superleague.co.uk/page.php?id=346. Leeds, including Buderus and Eastwood, had a total of 6 overseas trained (and I presume a number of those would have been candidates to be removed from the 'quota' should the players involved wished to do so.)
Where did Buderus' signing put pressure on Leeds' recruitment in relation to the existing quota spots available? | |
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| Quote ="tvoc"
Where did Buderus' signing put pressure on Leeds' recruitment in relation to the existing quota spots available?'"
Erm, because he took up a quota spot. |
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| Quote ="G1" He's been up and down this season. I am astonished at how star struck some of our fans are with him.'"
These are the same fans who dont see the true value of Bailey, Ablett etc.... |
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| Quote ="Lawrie L"These are the same fans who dont see the true value of Bailey, Ablett etc....'"
I'm sure you can't have failed to notice how the poster you're replying to has just suggested Leeds perhaps should have used the quota space taken by Buderus to sign (presumably) another quota player.
Quote ="G1"Erm, because he took up a quota spot.'"
Where was there any pressure on Leeds not allocating one of the number of available quota places to Buderus?
Wasn't it 'perhaps most importantly' your strongest objection to his signing? |
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| Hopefully, we should hear this week if Buderus is signing on for another year. Now that will put a smile on our faces! Something the antiquated end of the pier routine of the Tweedles has singularly failed to do.  |
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| Quote ="nantwichexile"You think some are biased towards Buderus. Others might say you're biased against him. '"
Where does he say others are biased towards him? |
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| Quote ="G1"Maybe Era of the Biff was referring to this........
McShane has been utilised in SL first team rugby the past two seasons. Is it unreasonable to hypothesize that had we not signed Buderus Mclennan could've still used his 2 hooker system, McShane would be further along in his development, the club will have saved an awful lot of £££ and, perhaps most importantly, the club could've used the quota space being taken by Buderus and strengthened elsewhere.'"
It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that we probably would have gone out and bought somebody else to have played hooker instead. Considering the club made the statement at the time of saying we wanted two first choice hookers, and that McShane wasn't ready at that time.
But I don't think that fits the agenda does it.
Quote ="G1"Buderus contributed virtually nothing last year'"
That would be in your opinion though Gareth, yours and the poor troll.
But to most posters who don't go with an agenda he won at least 4 matches for us last season, matches we would not have won without his influence. Could have mage a huge difference in finishing top of league or not. |
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| Quote ="Gotcha"But to most posters who don't go with an agenda he won at least 4 matches for us last season, matches we would not have won without his influence.'"
Which ones were they then Snizey wizey? |
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| Quote ="G1"Maybe Era of the Biff was referring to this........
McShane has been utilised in SL first team rugby the past two seasons. Is it unreasonable to hypothesize that had we not signed Buderus Mclennan could've still used his 2 hooker system, McShane would be further along in his development, the club will have saved an awful lot of £££ and, perhaps most importantly, the club could've used the quota space being taken by Buderus and strengthened elsewhere.
Buderus contributed virtually nothing last year and we did not miss him at all after his injury. He's been up and down this season. I am astonished at how star struck some of our fans are with him.'"
McShane was injured for much of last season, something you can't really hold against DB, or those who signed/played him.
You're right that we didn't miss him after he got injured, that's because we had a well balanced squad with 2 top quality hookers. |
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| Quote ="Era of the Biff"Which ones were they then Snizey wizey?'"
Most posters have already been through this plenty of times, it gets boring. Why should anyone have to repeat things to satisfy your poor fishing trips? |
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To jump in on the Buderus/McShane comments - TBH I have jumped to the end of this thread before it started to break down into a typical school boy thread...my opinion...numpty...no nowt about league...blah, blah, blah...
For me, I was chuffed when Leeds signed Buderus as I thought he would be another Bai - experienced (read old), but would bring a lot to the team. BUT he has been expensive and he has been injured a lot. Therefore for me, and for want of a better term, I think he has become a luxury player - similar to Brent Tate at Vodafone Warriors over in NZ (don't get me started on centres) - which no top flight league team can afford these days - as much due to the salary cap as to player development.
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How have we ended up back here again?
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I know this make me look a bit of a geek, but I was looking through the opta stats kindly posted by TVOC and decided to look a bit more closely at the number of metres made by Buderus. At first glance impressive; certainly more so than Diskin. However, if you use the figures relating to Buderus to calculate a running mean, i.e. to determine whether the average number of metres he makes per match has been increasing or decreasing through the season, an interesting pattern emerges. His average no. metres made per game actually peaked in week three. Thereafter, it has decreased week on week without exception. Now it may be that it will increase again towards the playoffs (or payoffs if you prefer), which I'm sure we'd all hope for; in the meantime it suggests to me that he started the season with something of a bang which he's since struggled to live up to (at least in terms of metres made). Is this a fair assessment?
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| Quote ="Gotcha"Most posters have already been through this plenty of times, it gets boring. Why should anyone have to repeat things to satisfy your poor fishing trips?'"
Pathetic.
I made a claim that Buderus contributed virtually nothing. You made a counterclaim that he won 4 matches. Era of the Biff, not unreasonably, asked you which ones they were.
You see, you dismiss my opinions as being an agenda, you dismiss era of the biff as trolling, but you're the one who can't contribute positively to the debate in a grown up fashion.
Substantiate your claim. Which 4 games did he single handed win for us? I can think of Huddersfield away last year as a game when he was a major influence on the outcome. And that is the only game that springs to mind during his entire tenure. How many man of the match awards has he been given? |
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| Quote ="Clearwing"I know this make me look a bit of a geek, but I was looking through the opta stats kindly posted by TVOC and decided to look a bit more closely at the number of metres made by Buderus. At first glance impressive; certainly more so than Diskin. However, if you use the figures relating to Buderus to calculate a running mean, i.e. to determine whether the average number of metres he makes per match has been increasing or decreasing through the season, an interesting pattern emerges. His average no. metres made per game actually peaked in week three. Thereafter, it has decreased week on week without exception. Now it may be that it will increase again towards the playoffs (or payoffs if you prefer), which I'm sure we'd all hope for; in the meantime it suggests to me that he started the season with something of a bang which he's since struggled to live up to (at least in terms of metres made). Is this a fair assessment?'"
I wouldn't say that the meters made for a hooker is a key indicator, its certainly not as meaningful as that for the other forwards, as their roles are different. The hookers are more similar to halfbacks in that they are laying the platform for the other players, with many carrys sideways rather than straight towards the line. |
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| Quote ="Clearwing"I know this make me look a bit of a geek, but I was looking through the opta stats kindly posted by TVOC and decided to look a bit more closely at the number of metres made by Buderus. At first glance impressive; certainly more so than Diskin. However, if you use the figures relating to Buderus to calculate a running mean, i.e. to determine whether the average number of metres he makes per match has been increasing or decreasing through the season, an interesting pattern emerges. His average no. metres made per game actually peaked in week three. Thereafter, it has decreased week on week without exception. Now it may be that it will increase again towards the playoffs (or payoffs if you prefer), which I'm sure we'd all hope for; in the meantime it suggests to me that he started the season with something of a bang which he's since struggled to live up to (at least in terms of metres made). Is this a fair assessment?'"
You are a geek 
However, if we're going to rely upon statistics this the kind of analysis that should be undertaken. very interest and somewhat alarming, |
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