Lots of teams do.

This highlights why Stats don't always provide the perfect measurement of a players' ability. There's no stats to measure how Palea'aesina's lack of ability affected the game but it did. His presence changed the course of the game.

Briers and Monoghan directed every drive at him. By the time Noble had realised the mess he was causing in Wigan's defence and got him off (after what must have been a 10 min stint) the lead and, in reality, the match had been lost.

On or two bullocking runs a match doesn't make fekka a decent player. We had this argument early season and lots' of stats were provided to show his was better than Kylie in this area and that but, I am sorry, that lump of lard is not a rugby player,

Make your mind up Dave.......



If Wigans forwards were so dominant...(but couldnt sustain it

) then presumably the Wires pack were beaten up...



How did the Wires halves then wrest domination away without this magical platform and utterly inspire the team to effectively destroy Wigan ( and their dominant pack

)

Granted after the injury the Wire took their foot off the gas briefly and with Gansons help made Wigan look good but with inspirational play from ..guess who.... the ship was balanced again and victory assured.

Prefer a Yorkshire team to lift the cup and take our chances with Saints (obviously I’m must not be a genuine Leeds fan)

TBH it’d stop all the Stains fans blaming their GF losses on their CC run.

Dont forget the weather!! Saints love to blame the weather!! Even though it didn't rain in 07 at the gf and was a very nice day for October!

Extended cup run, crappy weather and the moon was in the wrong house.

Oh, and according to one particular Saints fan (from Stirlingshire I believe) – simply a mystery.

I remember toyah well maybe they could hire "poirot" this year to solve it!!

Ben Westwood looks like an East End villain from the Sweeney.

Not a 'Mr Big' or anything like that, a small time blagger and hardman. He's done a few years in the Scrubs, taking a few knocks, and dished out a few. When a ref tells him off, I always want him to say 'Look guv, i swear on my old muvver's grave I ain't done it!'.

You are not reading what I am posting - the ebb and flow of the game was dictated by which set of forwards had the balance of power - the halves can only operate if the forwards have some momentum end of.

Halves cannot consistently score from within their own 30/40 metres - they need to be inside the opposition 30 to do real damage on a regular basis - how do they get there - through their forwards - it is not rocket science!!!!

I am trying Dave believe me I am but its very difficult. It would help if you could be a bit more consistant...



At one stage you speak of a simple forward dominance and allude to a very simple "truth" that once a set of forwards establish this dominance then the halves can be effective and victory is assured.

Thank God I rarley see games of this type. They tend to be the ones that are a total mismatch usually cup ties betweeen top tier and lower league sides or where one side may be hampered with injuries to key players.

For some reason they are also very boring.

Now you speak of an ebb and flow and forwards having "some" momentum.....

Give me these more interesting games like the Leeds V Wires game
and yesterdays game which was far more intriguing and complex than you would have us believe......

where the half backs of Leeds and Warrington hadnt read your thesis on the game and they established momentum for their teams and took away the oppostions momentum..... which must have been without the aid of their beaten pack by your logic.



Far to simplistic a theory Dave.....



It takes no account of a good long kicking game not usually a task taken on by the front row nor does it take account of discipline/penalty counts or the forced and unforced errors made by the opposition.

Teams establish field position by a huge variety of means not simply through the pack trundling down the pitch...unless your watching the Union game

In union the kick is the only way to make ground - that sets up a set play 50 metres down field you are never going to get a maul to go 50 metres



I have always been consistent in the views expressed in this thread - so as their no misunderstanding

In the first 20 minutes Coley and Prescott dominated there opposites and Wigan were 8-0 up and you never saw the Warrington half backs - at that point Noble took them off and replaced them Fielden and Feka - at that point the Warrington forwards took control giving Monaghan especially the momentum to attack Feka especially - what happens Warrington score loads of points. This continues until half time. In the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half Wigan's forwards get on top and surprise, surprise the start scoring a shed load and messers Briers and Monaghan are nowhere to be seen.

I will say it again no half back will dominate a game behind a pack that cannot make ground it simply will not happen. Yes the half backs can have a big influence in a game but not unless their forwards have an equally big influence.

On of the reasons Leeds lack any kind of attacking fluidity this season is the inability of the forwards to lay any kind of platform for them to operate - it is very difficult to consistently score from pieces of individual brilliance from within your own 40.

You will see more of this tactic in the play offs - teams will kick deep to Leeds regularly because they know the forwards will be unlikely to be to take the forward to any kind of attacking position which will leave the half backs in their 30/40 kicking straight to the opposition FB/winger.

Thank god I'm not going to Wembley is all I can say.

A day in London surrounded by the anti social behaviour of several thousand Warrington fans and their hangers on intent only on getting p!ssed, no thanks.

Extra time would be good also.

In an Arthur Mullard accent?

I would prefer Saints in the final, only for the fact that there games always end up close with Saints snatching it. I can see wire winning a final against Saints. Although it would be nice to see Hudd's in the final.

Hardly 20 minutes of forward dominance....by either side IMHO... ONE Try agumented by Richards 4 goals... Wigan were so dominant their coach panics and elected for an easy 2 points when 6 where clearly on offer accoring to your precepts.

Noble then panics again and makes the "standard" rotation not being able to make an adaptive decision...



but lets accept you might be right and Wires pack were beaten even at 10 -0

What happens then ?? ........almost immediately Wire score three times from an inspirational short kicking game instigated by the halves (behind this beaten Pack)

then Briers scores himself..then sets one up for Cooper....then Monaghan breaks clear for KIngs second try...then Briers sets up Kings hat trick with another bomb.

Thankfully for us neutrals Wigan refuse to comply with your theory and stage a remarkable comeback and shall we say they have the dominant position over the Wires pack.

What happens next

Monaghan and Briers step up again from a position you say is behind a beaten pack and a drop goal steadies the ship.

Finally after an excellent catch from a Wigan down town kick by guess who.... and with an inspirational quick flick pass gives Hick the time and space to seal the victory.



OK Dave...but IIRC didnt Phil Clarke state recently that Leeds are the top team at scoring from inside their own 40..I wonder which positions have made this valuable contribution ????? behind what you contend to be a regularly beaten up pack...

Very similar tactics as against Vainikolo in the 2004 GF - tire out the big man and the threat's gone. Shows what a class coach Smith is - would McLennan have the nous to do this?

Not judging by our game plan against Wigan last week

got the tactics spot in in last years grand final.had you forgotten?

No he didn't he's been poor since he's been here and the trophies we have won were because of the players ignoring him and reverting to smiths coaching