Wigan and Cas away next two games. Be shocked if we get owt there. Seriously is looking like middle 8s again.

I think so and it won't be easy this year

I disagree. Walker is a real talent, no issues there at all.

The pole is a big lad but so green and makes many mistakes. I think he will come good but it will take a while yet. Reminds me of singleton in that respect.

Smith isn't good enough. Not sure he ever will be.

Not seen enough of any others to really comment which in itself says a lot.

As for those that have been around a while now such as Handley, sutty, walters and Lilley, they are hardly setting the world on fire.

If I missed anyone please say but I don't see how the academy is producing players good enough to step in now.

What we need is investment in a handful of top level players who can push the club on now.

you dont see how a team playing 5 teenagers against Catalans and only losing in the last minute is showing theyre producing good enough players?
are you expecting academy players to already be the finished product?
feel free to provide examples of other teams playing with with young kids and getting results that are showing us how its done

Smith was outstanding last night, its his first proper season are you expecting kids to come in and instantly play like seasoned pros?

Handley is much improved and is still learning, these kids are learning the hard way which will help them in the end, they have come into a side lacking a lot of senior players, I would be much more downbeat if our first choice team was losing the way we are, again we are not getting hammered, its frustrating ad I think this year is a total right off, I think we will scrape in the top 8 as I think in the next few games a couple of closer games will go our way.

Wether McDermott should go next season is up for debate (probably not reasonable debate on here mind) but sacking him now with no replacement would be stupid.

Exactly, Wigan had a lot of injuries last year and had to play kids probably before they were ready, they finished 7th.

this week and last we had

Handley
Walker
Oledski
Newman
Smith
Holroyd

All in key positions and we narrowly missed out and should have won against the league leaders and lost by 3 points, the kids are going alright but they are kids and will make mistakes.

We've had plenty of time to line up a replacement as we've been crap for long enough but the problem is hetherington will want a puppet and not every one will be his best pal like mac so we're stuck.

Tony Smith isn't working right now, would it help us to add him to the coaching team? He knows BMD very well and they worked together before?

On the playing side, the injuries are really hurting us, but there seems to be a mindset of "we will be OK when we get players back". What if we don't get players back? What if we have to go with what we have? Other teams are suffering with injuries and pulling out results, it's not just us with the missing players.

One thing is for sure, if we make the middle 8's which is looking increasingly likely, it will be a far tougher fight than the last time. We need to wake up and stop "blaming" injuries for the situation we are in, it's a problem for sure, but far from the only one.

Agreed.
The last two games have been Smith's best by a mile, he really seems to be stepping up now, a few missed tackles aside.
Same with Oledzki, he's looking more like a first team prop every week.
Newman is showing some defensive frailty out on the edge for us, but he's only 18 in his 3rd game and is playing in one of the most difficult positions to defend in - especially as we're comparing him to Watkins who is probably the best defensive centre in the league. Looked like he set up a beauty of a try for Briscoe too last night, but was chalked off for a forward pass?
Holroyd didnt look out of place last night, which is itself a feat when you think he's 17 years old Prop and only has half a seasons experience playing above u16s.
All are clearly highly rated by our coaching staff and imo look like they could develop into big contributors to our team

That's my point!

These young kids are not good enough YET. In 2/3 years we will know much more but as a club we can't sit back and wait and see. We need to be recruiting better players NOW and the kids coming through are not good enough to keep the club in the top four AT THE MOMENT.

Sure, they are giving it their all through this injury crisis but would you want them plating every week next season?

But you are deliberately ignoring the injuries, they are playing a part in the teams 'slump' it simply can't be ignored, it might not be 100% the reason we are where we are but its is part of the issue, you are talking about the current team we are playing is our first choice team for next season, it simply isn't the case.

Do you think we can just go out and buy whoever we want? mid season? we should have replaced Galloway Ive said that was an error

If you are going to play kids, then you need some good seasoned pro's in the team to keep them bubbling along. We have like 12 of those out on the treatment table. We are badly lacking in leadership at the moment, this is what is costing us close games.

As I mentioned before, our recruitment in the close season was maybe enough to standstill which in modern sport is akin to going backwards but I actually think the issue is even simpler than that.

BM is done. It's all gone stale. We are predictable or we are stupid and throw games away where before we would have closed them out. The players have to take responsibility but what are they been coached when they make the same errors?

And look at the team. Moon is not a halfback. Myler us carrying all the responsibility. Ablett, Delaney, jjb, ferres are all at the end of their careers. We sign Dwyer then send him to fev, then bring him back again - what is that?

It's a mess and it's time he went. New coach, new approach and a targeted recruitment program and phasing out of old guard is needed.

Which teams have an injury list like ours and are pulling out results?
Hull have a few injuries and and lost a few games
Cas got a few injuries in the backs and drew with Hull KR
Maybe if we had a few less injuries we turn a few of the close losses into close wins, I dont know, but I dont see any club in a comparable position injury wise to ours, especially with how long its lasted.
I think we're a borderline top 4/5 team when everyones fit, but with the injuries we've had I dont think we're in an unexpected position

The biggest loss for us in terms of a player is probably Myler. You could argue Watkins as he's the captain and star man, but the halfback should be the one who organises the team and plays. Cas have had Gale missing for ages and haven't had a settled Stand off all season, whilst Hull FC have had Sneyd and Kelly missing for large parts too. All teams have had forwards missing.

I get that the forwards that have been missing at Leeds, which is obviously a concern, but the squads are usually set up to expect more injuries in the forwards anyway. What has been exposed is our lack of quality in depth, this is the weakest overall Leeds squad for many years.

Put Watkins in the team against saints, and catalans and we win, Newman is a great prospect but he was targetted for his defensive capabilities, that’s not knocking the lad as he is bound to miss a few tackles but centre in such an important position defensive wise.

Yet he was there when Wire destroyed us & we blew leads v Wigan & Hull so its not that certain at all.

You can set a squad up to miss more forwards but with the number of injuries we've had week after week any team would be found lacking in quality of depth.
Saying all teams have forwards missing is neither here nor there - have all teams being missing most of their props and half their second rowers all season?
Again, who has had an injury list comparable to ours and is still picking up results?

But of those 12, only 3 in Myler, Ward, and Watkins would actually make a difference. Possibly four if you include Peteru. The games we have lost, we would have still lost with the others that are missing in. Banging on about missing players is just a desperate attempt by the minority to try justify something that simply is not justified. To put politely its head in the sand.

No its looking at all the factors for the reason we are in poor form not just blindly blaming the coach for everything.

injuries, and the positions are a factor. however with so many forwards out why turn each game into a forward battle with one man rugby? took the coach 7 games to change it. make excuses all you like, and you will, he beats a lot of responsibility.
other sides cope because the organise, become hard to beat and change there game. we don't. or didn't until saints

you cant go sideways without going forwards first, and we've been missing our props most of the season.
no suprise to me that once we got Garbutt back and Oledzki has started stepping up we look far more dangerous in attack.

Whatever way you look at it, we shouldn't be losing to Huddersfield and Catalans at home, especially when both are directly battling with us to avoid the drop. Inbetween those two poop games we run the runaway league leaders to within a hair of victory playing good rugby to boot with the very same injuries so what is going on? Even with a few injuries its not acceptable for a club of our stature to get relegated twice in three seasons especially in a league that isn't that great a standard.

Relegated

when did that happen?

Also we aren’t in the middle 8s just yet, time will tell.

Too much said on injuries. Yes we've loads missing but all Mac has waffled on about is missing his big men. Well garbutt oledski cuthbertson mullally holroyd played last night so that's put to bed. The current missing players only watkins myler singo ward make any difference as the rest are championship players or like jjb ablett Delaney and ready for the knackers yard.