Garbutt missed the first couple of games with a dead leg gained in pre-season he then injured his knee in his first game back. He had surgery on it which kept him out until June. He played 3 games in June and 3 games in July and now has had a second knee operation.

Knee injuries are common for rugby players and can be career ending for those carrying the sort of weight that big men like Garbutt carry. For you to imply that the club or doctors are responsible for not getting "him fixed up properly" smacks of a blame the club for anything agenda.

Mullally has been a regular in the match day 17 for a couple of seasons now, so why do you wish to dismiss his absence so lightly when it is on top of losing our other three big props for most of the season. (Galloway, Garbutt and Peteru). Playing without your big men is a huge disadvantage yet you think this has not been a contributory factor in the poor team performances this year.

At least Sinfield has had the benefit of Garbutt and Peteru being available for half his matches so far.

What I think is too much is being made out of the loss of pretty average props - Mulally would be nowhere near getting a place in any of the top 4/5 sides. His loss is not even worth considering when reviewing McDermott's performance.

Other clubs have had equal injury issues e.g. Hull and they haven't suffered anywhere near the calamatous season Leeds have had.

Galloway never started so cannot be included, he missed a big chunk of 2017 and he wasn't missed - so we are talking about Garbutt and Peteru, who let's face it has hardly pulled up a lot of trees since his return. You are simply looking for excuses to defend the indefensible.

Losing props is definitely a facvtor, but when you look at what happened, not at least signing a Crosby-esque player on loan was ridiculous. I don't care whose fault it was.

Whilst a problem, we saw Huddersfield put together wins without many big forwards, because they adapted their game to suit the players available. Leeds never showed the slightest sign of adapting. You won't beat top sides regularly lacking big forwards, but the bottom half of SL is made up of a lot of poor teams, and we should have been able to get some wins by playing better and smarter. That's poor coaching and a poor squad.

Very few on here are under an illusion as to how embarrassing this season has been for the club. Hopefully a few of the higher-up individuals will look in the mirror and makes sure the mistakes that have been made are not repeated.

After round 2, here is my latest Prediction, surprisingly 4 Wins may for the 1st time guarantee safety. Subject to points difference.
But letting 4 try's in the last 15 minutes did not help!

14 Salford Win - Toronto (H), Toulouse (H), Leeds (A), London (A), Halifax (A)
12 Hull KR Win - London (H), Widnes (H), Halifax (H), Leeds (A), Toulouse (A)
8 Leeds Win - Toronto (H) Halifazx (A) - Loss to Salford (H). HKR (H), Widnes (A)
8 Toronto Win - London (H), Widnes (H), Toulouse (H) - Loss to HKR (H), Leeds (A), Salford (A)
6 London Win - Halifax (H), Toulouse (H) - Loss HKR (A) Salford (H), Toronto (A)
6 Widnes Win - Leeds (H), Halifax (H), Toulouse (A) - Loss HKR (A), Toronto (A),
2 Toulouse Win - none - Loss - (HKR (H), Widnes (H), Toronto (A), London (A), Salford (A)
0 Halifax Win - none - Loss - Leeds (H), Salford (H), HKR (A), London (A), Widnes (A)

You seriously think we'll lose to Widnes, Salford and Hull KR?

Not sure why, but HKR haven't yet been the force in the M8s that they threatened to be. In many regards they were lucky to beat a Toronto side who were also a lot poorer than I'd expected. I'd be surprised if we didn't beat at least one of these sides at home.

Salford seem to have hit a bit of form and possibly KR too, but I think we can even turn over Widnes, pity we don’t have them at home otherwise I’d really fancy us .

Classic Sal.

We have only won once at Widnes in 6 years, and that was the cup game earlier in the season. We are not good on the plastic pitch, even with the form Widnes are going through it will be close.
We are still leaking points and both HKR matches this season have been close.
While Salford are on form and turned us over only last month.

Of course Galloway has to be included as he was a first choice experienced prop contracted at the start of the season and only retired a few games into the new season. He was not replaced so the squad had 3 first choice (17) big men missing for so much of the season plus new signing Peteru which make 4 props out! Which clubs had 4 big props out for as long? which were on top of all the other long term injuries.

It is ridiculous to ignore these facts and dismiss them out of hand when looking for reasons for our poor performance and for you to have suggested the Leeds club management and medical staff did not get Garbutt's knee injury "fixed up properly" is further evidence of you anti club agenda.

We beat them in 2014. Anyway, we may be poor but Widnes are down right awful at the minute. If we can't beat them with SL status on the line should it be when we play them then we deserve to be playing championship rugby next season.

LEEDS WILL WIN ALL 7 GAMES.

Our defence needs to significantly improve if that’s to be the case

I'm not anti the club - they are in a difficult position with the investment they have had to make in the stadium.

What I am not into is defending a coach like McDermott that should have done better than he did with the resources at his disposal. As has been said on here I get losing to the likes of Wigan, Saints, Warrington even Cas but losing to the likes of Widnes, Catalans before their form improved, Huddersfield is poor management regardless of the squad make up.

McDermott had resources he chose not to use e.g. Ormonroyd, Smith, Lilley which would have provided some breathing space for injured/over used players. That is before we get into conditioning, youth development and tactics.

He's back - Rhinos win a couple of games and he's back

I've always been a glory hunter.

Now tell me more about how Hull aren't having a calamitous season Sal and why they're not having a calamitous season.
Since winning the Hull grand final against Hull in mid-May they've won just 2 games, both were at home and against Salford & Widnes - the 2 worst teams in the comp.
If they continue not having a calamitous season they'll finish the season in 8th place, 1 place above Leeds Rhinos who, I think we'll all agree, had had a pretty calamitous season.

Which competition are Hull in and which competition are Leeds in?

Are Hull guaranteed a place in SL at this moment in time - a simple yes/no answer will do.

So i would suggest whilst Hull haven't had a great season their fall from grace has been significantly less than Leeds despite an equally bad run of injuries.

My man. We're on the same page bro.

What are you talking about?

McDermott picked Smith in 14 games whereas Sinfield has only picked him in 1 game out of 6. He has played more minutes this year than Walters, Oledski, Mullally, Garbutt, Dwyer, Keinhorst and Peteru and has developed very well under McDermott this year.

Ormandroyd was selected for 8 matches including the first run of games including the WCC match down under. However he did not grab his chance the way Oledski did and showed too many mistakes in defense. Lilley unfortunately has never played well enough to secure regular spot and Sinfield having tried him for one game has not selected him again.

I am not saying that BMcD did not make errors or that I agreed with everything he did but the injury crisis for the first half of the year was a serious one and having no big men on top of not having replaced McGuire and Sinfield left the team totally unbalance and reliant on experienced youngsters.

Are you suggesting our defense has improved since we changed coach?

Haven't had a great season







PS, they're both in Super League unless one of them gets relegated, not that that's relevant as we're talking about Hull.

As I said a simple yes/no would have been ok - even through gritted teeth



As they are both in SL will they be playing each other again this season? if not why not

so why not replace galloway? why not get a prop in earlier? we obviously had cap space.

Even with our leaky defence ???

I've got no idea what you're trying to achieve there Sal, other than to move the conversation away from you making yet another ridiculous post, but anyway...



If you think the current Cup holders and a team that was targeting a top 2 finish and Grand Final appearance, ending the season without a win in 4-5 months and 1 spot above the qualifiers isn't "calamitous" for that club, then you're a bigger idiot than I ever gave you credit for. And believe me, I thought you were a prize whooper before today.

Enjoy your fog plaiting Sal, i'll try and drop by again soon.